Grandma Has ADHD

Episode 47 - How to Make Marriage Work When You Have ADHD?

• Jami Shapiro • Episode 47

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In this heartfelt follow-up episode, Jami welcomes back her cousin and therapist Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon for another deep dive into how ADHD impacts relationships—especially later in life.

With decades of marriage under her belt and a PhD in Marriage and Family Therapy, Jane brings humor, honesty, and deep wisdom to the conversation. Together, they explore how undiagnosed ADHD can shape—and sometimes strain—romantic partnerships, and how self-awareness can shift the entire dynamic.

Jami reflects on her own relationship before and after her ADHD diagnosis, sharing vulnerable moments about housework, emotional energy, and learning to ask for help. Jane opens up about her own ADHD journey and how she and her husband built a lasting, respectful partnership by recognizing each other’s strengths.

Whether you're in a long-term relationship, starting over, or just beginning to understand how ADHD affects your dynamic with others—this episode is for you.

Thank you for joining us for this episode of Grandma Has ADHD! We hope Jami's journey and insights into ADHD shed light on the unique challenges faced by older adults. Stay tuned for more episodes where we’ll explore helpful resources, share personal stories, and provide guidance for those navigating ADHD. Don’t forget to subscribe and share this podcast with friends who might benefit. Remember, Make the rest of your life the best of your life.

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Have you ever thought, is this just me? When struggling to stay organized, start tasks, or manage time, for those of us over 50, these challenges might not be just aging. They could be ADHD hiding in plain sight for decades. I'm Jami Shapiro, host of Grandma has ADHD, and I'm building a community where your experiences matter.

Whether you are diagnosed, questioning or simply curious. You are not alone. Our Facebook group is filled with vibrant understanding. People over 50 who share their stories, strategies, and yes, even their struggles with plenty of laughter along the way. Ready to find your people. Join our growing grandma has ADHD Facebook community.

Please like and subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and share it with someone who might need to hear. They're not alone because ADHD doesn't have an age limit and neither does understanding yourself better. Together, we're changing the conversation about ADHD after 50 come be part of the story. 

[00:01:25] Jami Shapiro: Hi. I am back with another episode of Grandma has ADHD, and just like all of them are special episodes. This is an especially special episode because we have a return guest who actually, as soon as we did the podcast, asked if she could do it again. And given that she is one of my favorite cousins and I was the flower girl in her wedding.

[00:01:51] Jami Shapiro: I could not say no, but she is not only a family member with ADHD, she is a grandma and a therapist, and she felt like there was a lot that she didn't say. And so when she asked, I said, of course. So welcome Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon, or as I like to say, cousin Jane or the Zoo Wrangler. 

[00:02:16] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Hi Jami. Thank you for having me back on.

[00:02:18] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: I appreciate it. 

[00:02:19] Jami Shapiro: I'm so happy. First of all, I have to tell everybody why I call you the zoo. So growing up Jane always had like a bazillion animals in her house, and even as a young child I was creative and started my letters to her. Dear Zoo. So that is my special nickname for her and her special nickname for me is Jamila.

[00:02:39] Jami Shapiro: I think you're the only person who calls me Jamila. Right? My boyfriend Brian tried to use it and I said, absolutely not. I cannot have you calling me Jamila. That just doesn't feel right. It feels icky.

[00:02:53] Jami Shapiro: so first of all, if you guys have not heard the first episode where I introduced my cousin Jane, I will share that she is an author and a therapist who went back to school in her forties to get her PhD. She's quite impressive. And one of. Specialties is marriage and the family.

[00:03:13] Jami Shapiro: And Jane, I don't remember the the title of your book, but I've definitely read it and I remember bits and pieces. But if you wanna hear more about Jane, I'm gonna click the link to the first episode in the show notes. But Jane, if you wanna tell a little bit more to the audience just before we get started, in case they haven't heard that one and they're not going chronologically in case they have not heard.

[00:03:35] Jami Shapiro: the first episode that we recorded 

[00:03:37] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: part one. Okay. I think you're talking about my book Keeping Love Alive. Yes. Which that is what I'm talking about. And I really had a lot of fun writing that. And as you know, I've been married 51 years and the thing is that I really think there's something to be said about ADHD and marriage.

[00:03:55] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Whether it's ADHD or whether it's ADD, I think that it's not a simple topic because it really is something that, affects us on a daily basis. And in particular, I think that it's a very personal. Issue in couples, that, people fight about, housework, being on time, remembering to call, keeping organized all kinds of things that people struggle with.

[00:04:22] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: And very often as, we know, you know, ADHD plays a role in that. 

[00:04:28] Jami Shapiro: It definitely does. It definitely did in my marriage. So what was it that made you decide that I know you love me, but we could talk on the phone. What was it that made you decide that you wanted to come back and do another episode of Grandma has ADHD.

[00:04:43] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: I kind of alluded to communication issues and I wanted to share with people that, one of the things that we do as grown up and growing up people is we're trying to understand ourselves. And some of us specialize in our sub modalities. They call them. Our ability. We, really are Sears.

[00:05:01] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: We see some of us here. We learn by learning. Some of us learn by doing. And some of us, learn by smell or by taste, you know, the other senses. But the thing is that, all of these really play a role in marriage because say you are an auditory person and you are all about hearing and listening and responding to words, and putting words in order in your head, but you have a spouse that is very visual.

[00:05:25] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: you can to a museum and come out of it and your mate says did you see all of that? and if you're an auditory person, maybe you really didn't see it, but you heard it all. You heard it. so we have these really basic differences and we can have the same experience with our spouse and.

[00:05:45] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Have completely different takes on things. And so when it comes to things like housework, when it comes to things like staying neat, when it comes to things like cooking or preparing things or keeping things organized it's really important to understand how we specialize, what are our special powers and that has a lot to do with our senses.

[00:06:04] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Also, I think that, something we touched on was a little respect for this, whether it's A-D-D-A-D-H-D, neurodivergence respect, meaning not to criticize, not to use it against each other. And I find that helps that happens a lot is that, certainly in unhappy couples, if there's a diagnosis that becomes.

[00:06:24] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Known. it's kind of, it can become weaponized, Or it can become the greatest asset you ever had so that you finally understand what's going on. 

[00:06:33] Jami Shapiro: Absolutely. I have the benefit, I guess you can say that, I have two long-term relationships. One is before my ADHD diagnosis, and the other is after my ADHD diagnosis.

[00:06:44] Jami Shapiro: And you know, Jane, I actually would call you and ask for advice. I was married for 15 years and you notice I haven't called you for advice this time. Right? True. And we've been together for five years, lived together for two. And and the difference is, and now I have an understanding of what my limitations are.

[00:07:03] Jami Shapiro: And like, for instance, one of the things that I noticed in my marriage was that I had a lot more energy than my partner who was the same age as I was. And I remember, there was a bottle for us because he could not keep up. And I thought he was lazy and he. Thought I couldn't give him the quality time that he needed because I couldn't sit still.

[00:07:23] Jami Shapiro: And now in this relationship we recognize that we have very different energy levels. I'm actually combined type. I have hyperactive ADHD as well as an attentive. And I realize that I'm probably not going to find a partner who can keep up with me. And so now we just know each other's energy levels and I let him do his thing and he lets me do mine.

[00:07:41] Jami Shapiro: And that's not an issue. also just housework. I, remember I could never keep it together in in my marriage. And I always felt like I was like juggling so many balls and dropping so many balls and that. It definitely took its toll on the way that household ran and now I'm much more aware of what my limitations are.

[00:08:01] Jami Shapiro: I'm trying not to bite off more than I can chew, and I'm asking for help as have a partner who is acknowledging that I need the help and he is not making me feel, to your point, bad about it. 

[00:08:12] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Right, right. And we have all different levels of cleanliness, but I think especially, as you say, we really need help.

[00:08:20] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: many, many years ago, people didn't have two and three jobs that they were working or, a full-time career and children and getting those kids to school and all the other kind of things that people have to juggle these days. And, it might've been possible to get it all done.

[00:08:35] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: But now it is quite difficult and the thing is that we're also battling on the other side of this burnout. People getting just burned out from having too many things to keep up with. So, very often it, it comes across as that, oh, you just don't wanna do it, or you just can't keep up with your life.

[00:08:53] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Hey, and it's highly critical and it really leads to a lot of defensiveness and relationships and lack of understanding. But people need help. I'm all about people hiring extra people to help them out in their lives. Wanna do that. And yet, we're really juggling a lot of balls in the air.

[00:09:10] Jami Shapiro: We really are. And I would also say that I'm sure that for the partner that doesn't have ADHD, there's a frustration feeling like they have to kind of take on the role of parentification because their partner maybe isn't carrying their weight or, they've asked them to do something and then that person isn't trying to, ignore them.

[00:09:28] Jami Shapiro: I mean, for me, I just. Out of sight, out of mind, I would forget. I mean, we had to have a system in place for, if you want me to do it, it needs to go on this todo list in this place. Right, 

[00:09:38] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Exactly. The old, 

[00:09:40] Jami Shapiro: 

[00:09:40] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: honey do list. Correct. We.

[00:09:44] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Take a list, but we also say please and thank you and I appreciate that you did that and all these things. Mm-hmm. Yes. 

[00:09:51] Jami Shapiro: So I have a question for you. I am frequently asked because I do a lot of downsizing presentations or as I like to call them rightsizing 'cause that's a more appropriate term. But if a couple comes and you've got one of the two people who is driven crazy by the clutter.

[00:10:05] Jami Shapiro: And, what I, always tell people is we do have different clutter tolerance levels, but what would you as a marital, therapist advise a couple to do when they do have such different clutter, tolerance levels? 

[00:10:18] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Well, I think that really beginning to focus on what is the meaning of the clutter.

[00:10:24] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: I think that for a lot of people there's a backstory. Maybe growing up with not enough stuff or growing up with too much stuff and, feeling uncomfortable about stuff. And so I think that people really have to communicate about what is the meaning of this. I'm big on having people take photographs of things and then tossing them because we wanna remember and very often.

[00:10:45] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: I feel like if we're not in possession of something, we can't remember it or we won't remember it. Fortunately, most of us have, cameras on our phones and so it's really quite easy to remember things. But I think that also, for folks with ADHD, there is a concern about out of sight outta mind, not remembering things, not mm-hmm.

[00:11:03] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: What they need and feeling a little panicky about that. Mm-hmm. 

[00:11:08] Jami Shapiro: I would also say you didn't bring it up, but it's important to note that not only do we have a different attachment to things, but our accumulation patterns might be based on, getting excited about a project, buying everything for that project.

[00:11:19] Jami Shapiro: Moving on to the next project or in my case, I would spill something and I'm like, oh, that's not what I'm doing right now. I don't wanna go back and pick it up because I'm doing this. And when we have ADHD, we tend to our hyper focus also means that we don't like to transition. So if I'm doing this, don't ask me to do why.

[00:11:39] Jami Shapiro: Right? So I tell people that they need to pick, they need to pick their battles. For me it's the kitchen. So I am willing to let the bedroom be a little messy. But the kitchen is that one space that I want to feel good about because that's where people congregate when they come into the home makes, meal prep easier.

[00:11:59] Jami Shapiro: So what are other pieces of advice if you have clients that are coming into you to talk to you and you're noticing that ADHD is an, is impacting their relationship, what is your advice for them? Well, 

[00:12:11] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: first of all, I think you have to ask this, the question of. Have people been diagnosed with ADHD Because very often people don't know that they're exhibiting either, whether it's, fidgetiness or whatever they're exhibiting that, might be a telltale sign, starting too many projects, not completing things, not putting things away. But maybe they have always done it that way, and we tend to rationalize, oh, I've always done it that way.

[00:12:34] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: You it's a nothing. And yet I think it's really important to understand that this is something and we do all have strengths and we all have patterns. And somehow we need to find some middle of the road way to meet each other. Mm-hmm. But all about understanding and then accepting, our strengths, our lack of strength in certain areas, trying to understand each other, being supportive, giving praise.

[00:13:01] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Appreciation recognizing that our differences are okay. we all say, Hey, Viva, law difference, it's okay to be different, but in point of fact, very often within couples, there's a real strain associated with being different. Somehow we want people to be different, but only in the way we want them to be different.

[00:13:16] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: We really don't want them to be different from us at all. Okay. That's very stressful. 

[00:13:23] Jami Shapiro: Okay, so I have a question for you as a therapist. When you are working with somebody, can you generally sense when ADHD is at play and when maybe they don't even know it? 

[00:13:34] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Well, I do think thatthe fidget in this can be a real problem.

[00:13:38] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: It can be a kind of a telltale sign. But also the idea that people, will say, Hey, I get up, I get going and I can't stop myself. I just keep going, Or. I start one thing and then I notice there's a little something on the carpet that needs to be picked up right away. But then I find myself cleaning the whole carpet.

[00:13:55] Jami Shapiro: I'm vacuuming, and then the floor needs a little bit of help too. And by the way, I don't even remember what I started to do, but it's left out there, Yeah. there was a book. If you give a mouse a cookie. Years ago, but then they turned it into, if you give a mom a something, and then she goes like into the laundry room, and then she sees something and then she's like, oh.

[00:14:14] Jami Shapiro: And then she takes it to some, right. And that's such a typical ADHD story. So you had mentioned that you had shared with your clients that you had done this podcast and they were super excited. what were they saying? 

[00:14:25] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Very excited, first of all, because so many people have been diagnosed later on in life or are just coming to the point where they're saying, can you, assess me for ADHD?

[00:14:37] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: And I've done that over the years. And people already are well into their careers and they're well into their lives. And, it's just a lot of excitement, especially about the idea about managing the amount of stuff that we have. Talk to them about, how you try to rightsize people and, work through the clutter and figure out what the clutter's about and all of that.

[00:14:57] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: people just light up like, oh my God, where's this person? I need her. 

[00:15:03] Jami Shapiro: Well, you could tell them that I'm writing a book just like my cousin. 

[00:15:06] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: All right. 

[00:15:07] Jami Shapiro: Yeah. So let me ask you this question. When you are the person that tells your clients that they do have ADHD and that they've had it their whole lives, how do they react to that?

[00:15:17] Jami Shapiro: I mean, is there a general way that people are reacting? I'd love to hear what the response is. 

[00:15:23] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Typically people will ask me to assess them so I'm not bringing it up. Occasionally I do, but usually people will have an idea that something is up with them, that they just can't quite settle down and focus and, they're reading things time and time again, and it's not sticking.

[00:15:40] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: And, they're kind of struggling through things so. Do have an opportunity to go over with them. whatarethe key points. they're kind of relieved, and then they wanna talk about medications and they wanna talk about what they can do about it or not do, do they have to do something, 

[00:15:57] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: And it's kind of a scary idea, but if you've been struggling for long enough, it's a welcome relief, I think. 

[00:16:04] Jami Shapiro: For sure. And I'm definitely mixed. I don't know if I had shared with you that I asked the button question. I think I asked you the button question.

[00:16:11] Jami Shapiro: The button question is if you could press a button and your ADHD would go away. You would never have it. You would never have had it. Would you press that button? Don't answer that question, Jane, because we are going to take a break and we're gonna come back.

 

Are you tired of feeling like you can't get it together? Struggling with clutter that overwhelms you despite your best efforts. Wondering why organization feels impossible while others make it look so easy. You are not alone and it's not your fault. Hi, I'm Jami Shapiro. Host of the grandma has ADHD podcast and I understand exactly what you're going through.

I combine my years of hands-on work as founder of Silver Linings Transitions, a move management and home organizing company, together with ADHD coach, training and help adults 50 and over connect the dots between ADHD and lifelong struggles. Whether you are downsizing, decluttering, or simply trying to create systems that work for your ADHD brain, I provide virtual and in-person coaching for those in the San Diego area.

Together we'll develop practical strategies that honor how your brain actually works, not how you think it should work, ready to trade. Shame for understanding. Visit Grandma has adhd.com. Or call to schedule a discovery session at 7 6 0 6 0 7 7 3 7 7 because it's never too late to finally make sense of your story.

 

Ever wondered why helping a loved one declutter feels like speaking different languages? I did, especially with my mom. It wasn't until I founded Silver Linings Transitions helping San Diego seniors organize and move for over a decade that I discovered why we all experienced clutter differently. And for those of us with ADHD, it's a whole other world.

If you are listening in the San Diego area and feeling stuck with moving. Paperwork, photos or home organization. Our team at Silver Linings Transitions gets it. We understand ADHD's unique challenges and we won't just help you get organized. We'll create sustainable systems that. Finally stick Schedule a consultation with our team today at 7 6 0 5 2 2 1 6 2 4.

That's 7 6 0 5 2 2 1 6 2 4 or find us@silverliningstransitions.com.

 

[00:19:03] Jami Shapiro: And we are back with Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon, who is also a favorite cousin of mine. And Jane, the button question I asked you before the break, if you could press the button that would've taken away your ADHD so that it never existed, would you press that button? 

[00:19:22] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Sometimes I would say yes. Sometimes I would say no. We've talked a little bit about the fact that I enjoy the energy.

[00:19:29] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: I don't enjoy the struggle. I don't enjoy getting in my own way, and I don't enjoy having to be so mindful about what it is I'm doing at every moment so that I can stay on track. I go back and forth with that one, 

[00:19:43] Jami Shapiro: but you did not answer the question that I asked you, Jane. Okay. I asked you would you press or not, so you have to decide if the good outweighs the bad.

[00:19:52] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Does the good outweigh the bad? Well, I don't know. I honestly do not know. I really have taken this question and turned it inside out for myself. I don't know. 

[00:20:05] Jami Shapiro: And the reality is we can't change it anyway. But I will say, and you tell me this as a therapist, I have heard that one of the natural tendencies of people with ADHD is to be curious and that being curious as we age is actually a trait that will help us age better.

[00:20:20] Jami Shapiro: am I making that up, or would you say that that's true? 

[00:20:25] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: I think that's probably true. Okay. I like that. I like the curious factor. I love it. Enjoy, a lot of the things that go along with ADHD, you know, the hyperactivity. But not taking it to the point of being manic. That's a whole game, Yeah. And really important I think to, be self-aware, because otherwise we can really set ourselves up for some mess. 

[00:20:50] Jami Shapiro: Sure. I will say one of the best things that has happened for me since I have learned that I have ADHD is the awareness that. It is forgetting is inevitable. Like you think I'm definitely gonna remember to do this and now I set myself up for future, Jami, and just before our podcast, I got a call for work.

[00:21:09] Jami Shapiro: We keep a list of everybody who calls in and I knew that I had to get on this podcast, but I also knew that if I didn't record that conversation. It was gonna be gone. And so I took the time, which I didn't want to do because it was distracting me from what I was trying to do, getting online with you.

[00:21:27] Jami Shapiro: And I paused and I entered that information, and that is. Setting me up for success. And that's been a huge game changer in terms of my own ADHD discovery. and then of course that voice in their head that's definitely one that I have learned is very big for those of, with ADHD, because we're always getting those messages like, what's wrong with you?

[00:21:49] Jami Shapiro: Why can't you get it together? Are you lazy? why are you always losing things? I know for me and you, knew me as a child, the description was too much. I was too much. And that's really hard to feel like you have to tone yourself down to get people to like you, right? And so then you have this voice in your head, like, oh, am I being too much?

[00:22:12] Jami Shapiro: Or, analyzing everything that gets said. And it's no wonder we have so much anxiety. 

[00:22:18] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: That's absolutely true because I do think that people take a certain liberty with talking about people, whether they are very active or whether they are curious and turning those into to bad things.

[00:22:31] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Especially with kids, oh, this child's overactive, or this child is hyperactive, And so there's a lot of criticism that kids hear about themselves, and I think that can be very self-limiting. Kind of alluding to though also is the idea of multitasking and how that just is kind of a no go.

[00:22:50] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: At this point, I think a lot of people, especially with the tension issues are realizing that, is really setting yourself up for failure as well. And how important it is to kind of slow ourselves down and really just do one thing at a time or make notes so that we don't forget about those other things that we really need to get back to.

[00:23:10] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: So yeah, it is about setting yourself up for success or failure. Okay. 

[00:23:15] Jami Shapiro: one of the ways that my hyperactivity showed up, and I didn't even realize it until I completed ADHD coaching, is that I would over schedule myself. Partly because I was hyperactive and I needed to keep, energized and going, but partly because I had a hard time prioritizing, what I should be doing, And I didn't wanna miss anything. And that was taking a toll on my relationship as well, because, I wasn't home for dinner most nights and And I was just never like kind of putting the day in a box and being, okay, this is what I could do today. Now I'm gonna pause.

[00:23:47] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: And, 

[00:23:47] Jami Shapiro: and spend some time. 

[00:23:49] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Yeah. that's a really great observation. because so many of us think that, the more we do, the better. And especially, if we like our jobs and we like our careers, we have some idea that's gonna make us happier and our families happier when in fact it doesn't always work out that way.

[00:24:07] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: They kind of see us as, oblivious perhaps or not caring. And that's kind of the last thing you're trying to communicate. So that's 

[00:24:17] Jami Shapiro: challenge. So I have another question for you both. As somebody who's been married for 51 years and as a marriage and family therapist from what I have understood that the divorce rate is higher among people with ADHD, but you've been married 51 years and every time I've ever been around the two of you, The energy between you is amazing and what do you think is the secret, or maybe not a secret, but I mean obviously you've had ADHD in your entire marriage. When did you discover that you had ADHD? 

[00:24:48] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Not until after I had kids. My thirties but I think that certainly having a spouse that appreciates what ADHD is important.

[00:24:56] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: But I think even before that, we had a deep kind of appreciation for the fact that we're all gonna have individual differences and. we need to somehow capitalize on those strengths, and cover for each other, in terms of, if I can't do this, well you take it up, and if you can, that's great.

[00:25:13] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: we got that covered. That's, really important, I think, this teamwork idea, because you do have different strengths. And like I said, maybe one of you sees everything, the other one hears everything. You got a good thing going. But to be able to share, getting through this life and, and getting things covered is really important.

[00:25:35] Jami Shapiro: I think you guys went into that also. I mean, I just wanna point out for people who have seen Jane's name she hyphenated and that you were the first person that I ever knew. To hyphen up Now granted, I was four years old when you got married, but to hyphenate your name so that you took both names and Gary did not though.

[00:25:53] Jami Shapiro: But your kids did, right? Or no? 

[00:25:55] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: No, my kids did not. And Gary takes Rosen Grandon and anytime we're talking about the two of us, so he does use Rosen Grandon. And actually, it's on our checking account as Gary Michael Rosen Grandon. Nice. Which is really nice. again, that's kind of like an indicator of respect Respect for both of our names, whether he uses it every day or not, it doesn't matter. It's there. it's something to be respected. 

[00:26:20] Jami Shapiro: So what if you're in a marriage now and maybe, the resentment is building up and you're discovering ADHD and its impact in your relationship, what now?

[00:26:32] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: I think that, in discovering that you're also gonna discover that perhaps you've not been attentive to your mate. That can lead to a great deal of misunderstanding. It can lead to being so busy. Oh, I forgot about sex. Oh, we're supposed to take time to make love. Well, we wanted to be spontaneous, so we'll just wait whenever that happens.

[00:26:49] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: I think you can't survive that way. I think that it's really important to put sex. On the calendar of your life, and develop some sort of a rhythm together so that you're really spending adequate time together. I think that time on, time together is everything and 

[00:27:05] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: just not ignoring each other and not ignoring the importance of,why we fell in love, why we're getting married, why we decided to live together, why we decided to make a family, you know, is remembering is the two people. and all of us have different needs. 

[00:27:20] Jami Shapiro: Would you say, and I don't remember if I checked.

[00:27:23] Jami Shapiro: I talked on this on the last episode, but would you say that need for like different and exciting might cause somebody with ADHD to sort of like blow up their marriage because they're looking for drama or they're creating chaos because it's their, comfort. 

[00:27:40] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Well, I don't know if it's the creating chaos.

[00:27:43] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: But I do think that it is possible certainly to blow up a marriage if you're not satisfied, if you're not happy. That really comes back to communicating, communicating your needs sexually, communicating your needs for variety, your needs to be stimulated adequately, your needs to be loved and comforted and supported.

[00:28:04] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: so there's, just so much that people have to grow together to do. 

[00:28:09] Jami Shapiro: Right. One of the things, like I said that I remembered that you shared with me was that you and Gary had your alone time every day, which used to be the hot tub. Is it still the hot tub? Yes, we do have our daily hot tub.

[00:28:21] Jami Shapiro: It is a delight. It's daily. Okay. What time is it daily and and what do you, no, not the, the rated stuff, but what do you do in the hot tub? 

[00:28:30] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Well, the time of day really varies, on weekends, of course, it's later. Sometimes I'm working, he'll take a hot tub by himself, but sometimes it's a delightful way for us to be face-to-face.

[00:28:39] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: If you think about it, you're in the hot tub. There's only two or three feet between you, you know, you're speaking, one-on-one. it's really taking time together. It's just like sitting there 20 minutes or whatever. And you're taking time for each other, but it's that attention to each other, That's where I think that attention issues, can very powerfully advise us, and inform us about the need to give each other attention. I think that's what we need in relationships. I think that's what makes people stray, is when they don't get adequate attention and then they. Begin to get attention from other people and gee, that's very compelling.

[00:29:14] Jami Shapiro: Right? Absolutely. it's interesting, so I'm going to add a part to my book now because I had not considered the inattentiveness of blowing up a marriage. Do you have questions that you and Gary, like, do you have a daily affirmation or a question, or is it just a natural flow?

[00:29:27] Jami Shapiro: I mean, again, 51 years of marriage in this day and age is pretty impressive. 

[00:29:33] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Thank you. I think that we don't ask each other specific questions except for tell me about your day. and I really believe that at the end of the day, you talked about, how do you put the day in a box?

[00:29:43] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: I think that we all have a need to debrief. Kind of, put things on the table and look at 'em and then, put 'em away. But, speaking and speaking it to someone else and sharing what the day has actually been like, what you actually did, is priceless in terms of our ability to remember, to organize, to understand things, to make sense of things, to talk about things.

[00:30:05] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Just to kind of walk through your day, I remember drop. My daughter at school, and I'd say at the end of the day, so tell me how was school? What'd you do? And she'd say, oh, nothing. you go, well, I dropped you off. Like, who'd you talk to? Where'd you go? What classroom were you in?

[00:30:19] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Who's the teacher today? What'd you study first? did you say the Pledge of Allegiance? what else did you do? What time was PE or what time was lunch? I wanna know details and that kind of gets you in the habit of talking through your day so that again, you can kind of organize.

[00:30:33] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Thoughts and also learn about the other, because you've been gone from each other for 10, 12 hours, whatever. That's a lifetime. That's a whole day of stuff that has gone on and, Really know each other. You kind of have to know those kind of details and be included to feel, to value each other's experience.

[00:30:53] Jami Shapiro: Yeah, I agree. I think that we definitely want to feel heard and understood and seen. All of those things, and having a partner that says, Hey, you matter, what your day looked like matters. And yeah, it's been game changing for me. I mean, it's unfortunate that it took a divorce and a diagnosis and all of that stuff for me to realize it.

[00:31:15] Jami Shapiro: But I guess as they say, when you know better, you do better. Any other advice that you want to leave our listeners with as we're wrapping up part two of the Jami Jami podcast episode? 

[00:31:31] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Well, the only other thing that we really haven't touched upon too much is about work and about career and job satisfaction and finding your own niche and finding a place in the workforce where you can really exercise your own talents.

[00:31:44] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: And that is in terms of keeping your attention. To detail your attention to the task, wanting to interact with those people, do that kind of work. Is really finding yourself in a job that is satisfying, is stimulating, keeps you, excited and makes you wanna get up in the morning and go there.

[00:32:05] Jami Shapiro: So, I mean, how late do you see people with ADHD if you're working, like work in terms of like, I know you're in your seventies, right? I can't believe that. How old are some of your patients that have ADHD that are, still working? 

[00:32:23] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Well, I have all kinds of people who are still working, but I'm thinking mostly about people in their thirties and forties who, or even fifties or sixties, who have been doing a job that they hate and they're not happy in it, and it does not exercise their talents and it doesn't stimulate them.

[00:32:40] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: make them wanna grow or they love the work, but they really hate the people because they're being mistreated and they need to become more assertive or whatever. And, I think it's true through the lifetime, and people may wanna do a certain job for a certain number of years, but then they go, I'm a little tired of this.

[00:32:54] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: I want something different. And I think that it's important to be able to have, the support for. Good. What do you wanna do? What do you wanna do different? Do you wanna go back to school? what job are you looking at? what's interesting? allow each other to grow.

[00:33:07] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: And encourage that growth. Because about having an attention issue is that you wanna grow. It's like, I always think about like, Pacman, eating new information all the time, hungry. Information all the time. And that when we get bored, we tend to chew on the past. We tend to, bring up things to ourselves that didn't go so well or, things we're mad about or things that didn't get resolved, and so I think it's really important to keep ourselves growing in the right direction.

[00:33:34] Jami Shapiro: it's so interesting. I hadn't thought of that one too, but I remember my ex-husband, or like to call him my was Bend when I was starting my business, told me that my business was like my boyfriend because it was taking me away and I was, very focused on it and I absolutely own that.

[00:33:50] Jami Shapiro: I did not give him the attention that he needed or deserved. And, again, lots of mistakes made along the way, but 

[00:33:58] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: hearing. I'll remember that term. 

[00:34:02] Jami Shapiro: All these things you're learning from me. All these things. Well, I am so grateful Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon, that you wanted to join me again on my podcast.

[00:34:13] Jami Shapiro: It's very validating because when you have known someone your entire life, right? And they've seen you grow up, for them to say, Hey, kiddo. I think you still call me that every once in a while. you're doing a great thing over there. it means a lot. You are not just some random stranger that's, validating me.

[00:34:29] Jami Shapiro: You're someone who's seen the journey. 

[00:34:32] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Yeah. And I love what you do and I really do. I really, think that more and more, I see people who really need help with. Organizing and managing, and I love what you are doing to help people rightsize or to make a transition to a new living environment.

[00:34:50] Dr. Jane Rosen Grandon: Right? And I think it's important work. Good work. 

[00:34:54] Jami Shapiro: Well, I wanna complete what you just said. I think it's really important to anybody who's listening to know that it's important that you not just hire an organizer because an organizer's gonna come in, it's gonna be a one and done, and then you're just gonna repeat your patterns.

[00:35:07] Jami Shapiro: You have got to either hire somebody who understands ADHD and is going to help come up with the systems that are going to work for you. Or you need to go to an organizer who is trained in ADHD. And I recommend the ICD, the Institute for Challenging Disorganization. People can find them, in their areas and, until my book is out and once my book is out, I still think a lot of people will need at least the organizer to help them get started, but then they'll be able to understand it and maintain the systems.

[00:35:38] Jami Shapiro: But that is not out yet. So anyway. Thank you. Well, thank you all for listening to today's episode of Grandma Has ADHD. If you like what you heard, which I hope that you did, please comment wherever you listen to your podcast, share it with your friends and family and join me at the Grandma has ADHD Facebook page because when you discover that you are not alone and you can find a community of other people who understand you.

[00:36:07] Jami Shapiro: It is amazing how much better you feel about the journey, so thanks so much. Thanks Cousin Jane, Thank you, Jami.

 

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