Grandma Has ADHD

Episode 50 - The Clutter Between Us: How ADHD Awareness Healed My Mother and My Relationship

• Jami Shapiro • Episode 50

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In this milestone 50th episode, Jami Shapiro sits down with a very special guest—her mom, Vicki—for a deeply personal and eye-opening conversation about ADHD, clutter, grief, and the complicated bonds between mothers and daughters.

Together, Jami and Vicki share the untold story of how clutter and emotional dysregulation shaped their relationship for decades—and how finally understanding ADHD has begun to transform not only their perspective, but their connection to one another.

From unpacdings, resentment, and the stigma that kept ADHD hidden in plain sight. With humked boxes after a family loss to the heavy weight of generational trauma, Jami and Vicki candidly open up about misunderstanor, honesty, and vulnerability, they also explore the powerful relief that comes when you realize: it wasn’t laziness, weakness, or failure—it was ADHD all along.

Whether you’re navigating ADHD yourself, supporting a loved one, or healing family wounds, this heartfelt episode will remind you that it’s never too late to rewrite your story, repair relationships, and find compassion for yourself and others.

Thank you for joining us for this episode of Grandma Has ADHD! We hope Jami's journey and insights into ADHD shed light on the unique challenges faced by older adults. Stay tuned for more episodes where we’ll explore helpful resources, share personal stories, and provide guidance for those navigating ADHD. Don’t forget to subscribe and share this podcast with friends who might benefit. Remember, Make the rest of your life the best of your life.

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Grandma Has ADHD

Have you ever thought, is this just me? When struggling to stay organized, start tasks, or manage time, for those of us over 50, these challenges might not be just aging. They could be ADHD hiding in plain sight for decades. I'm Jami Shapiro, host of Grandma has ADHD, and I'm building a community where your experiences matter.

Whether you are diagnosed, questioning or simply curious. You are not alone. Our Facebook group is filled with vibrant understanding. People over 50 who share their stories, strategies, and yes, even their struggles with plenty of laughter along the way. Ready to find your people. Join our growing grandma has ADHD Facebook community.

Please like and subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and share it with someone who might need to hear. They're not alone because ADHD doesn't have an age limit and neither does understanding yourself better. Together, we're changing the conversation about ADHD after 50 come be part of the story.

 

[00:01:29] Jami Shapiro: Welcome to episode 50 of Listen of Grandma has ADHD. If you are listening to this Podcast then you are not getting the privilege of seeing my mom, Vicki, in her natural habitat. I am visiting Jacksonville, where we are working together to finish the book that I have. Just started telling everybody that I'm doing because it's daunting and when you start telling people, then you actually have to do it.

[00:02:01] Jami Shapiro: The book is going to be called, this explains so much for people who have too much, kinda like my mom, who feel too much, pretty much everybody with ADHD And people who have been told there too much, and that has been my experience when I'm constantly asked to take it down a notch. So mom. Thank you.

[00:02:27] Vicki: You're welcome. 

[00:02:28] Jami Shapiro: 

[00:02:28] Vicki: and welcome to my abode. 

[00:02:31] Jami Shapiro: So it's funny because I'm in my mom's home and I have been very open in the book, but not really on the podcast that I have really avoided being in my mom's home. It really started when I graduated from college my mom had gone through a divorce.

[00:02:50] Jami Shapiro: From my stepfather, and I had moved in after college. So I'm in my twenties, my mom's in her forties. And that's when the accumulation really began and I became aware of it. And then I would say to my mom when she would bring things in from the latest garage, shale or the sale Mom, did you really need that, right?

[00:03:10] Jami Shapiro: Mm-hmm. And how did that make you feel? 

[00:03:14] Vicki: A little angry. Defensive. I always felt like I wasn't asking you for anything and it was my money and it was so much fun garage sailing that it kind of took a little bit of the joy out of it. I didn't start garage sailing until I was divorced the second time.

[00:03:37] Vicki: And I made friends with girls. We went every Saturday, and it was a thrill of the chase at that point. 

[00:03:45] Vicki: 

[00:03:45] Jami Shapiro: so for me, the clutter, and I share this in the book and I share it when I present clutter. We all have different clutter tolerance levels. For me it was. Too much. I was processing, taking in too much and my mom and I agreed that I should move out because it was not healthy for our relationship.

[00:04:04] Jami Shapiro: And my mom's clutter has continued to get worse through the years. And I share that when my mother closed on her first townhouse on a Friday. I'm gonna have to pause 'cause I've got that morning frog in my throat. Mom, you're gonna remember exactly where we were in this conversation, right?

[00:04:24] Jami Shapiro: Because I'll forget. All right. Hold on. So we are back and I have gotten rid of that frog in my throat. As I was sharing the story, my mother closed on her town home on a Friday. And I think my grandfather had gone into hospice the day before and he passed away Sunday. So if anyone has ever moved, whether you are neurodivergent or typical the likelihood, unless you've hired a senior move manager to come in and help you of you having your home unpacked right after you move in is slim to none. But when you throw in a death and all that comes with it, you're not probably going to unpack. And my mother was caring for my grandmother dealing with her own grief, and so my mom's unpacking really never occurred.

[00:05:14] Jami Shapiro: To the extent that it needed to. And then nine months later, my grandmother died unexpectedly and my grandmother was my mother's best friend, and my mother was not prepared to get rid of my grandmother's things. And so anything that wasn't obvious trash or someone else in the family didn't take, or like medical equipment that my mother was able to donate came into my mom's place.

[00:05:38] Jami Shapiro: I had a baby at the time. And my mom just never dealt with it. And now I see that it was because she was completely overwhelmed by everything that had to be done, and she was grieving. And there's also something called grief hoarding, which is when we lose a loved one we wanna hold onto their things to remember them.

[00:06:01] Jami Shapiro: And, so, mom, what was going on for you? 

[00:06:04] Vicki: Well your uncle and his wife. Actually packed up my mother's condo and packed it into boxes and they said, what do you want me to do with it? And I said, bring it to my house. So it looked like a train. There were just boxes lined through the living room and into the dining room, just one after the other.

[00:06:29] Vicki: And my brother said, well, you're gonna go through this, right? And I said, yeah. And. Every time I would open a box, I would go through it and then I'd put everything back and I just couldn't get rid of it. And so my brother finally said, put it in storage. I'll pay for it for six months. And you go over there and go through it and get rid of the stuff.

[00:06:56] Vicki: I didn't do that either. Couldn't do that. So I brought it back to my house, started going through it again, and this time I was able to get rid of some of the stuff. That I didn't love. 

[00:07:10] Jami Shapiro: Mm-hmm. 

[00:07:11] Vicki: I didn't know my mother was collecting tropical fish and napkin holders and napkin rings and stuff like that.

[00:07:19] Vicki: I had never noticed it in her house and I don't like these, so I got rid of 'em. Some of the stuff I put in an antique booth, which. 

[00:07:28] Jami Shapiro: Mom, we, we got a half an hour-ish on this. Okay. Like, you can't, but like, we don't, they don't need everything what you did with it. Okay. But it was more like how you were feeling.

[00:07:34] Vicki: Yeah. I still couldn't get rid of it. There was some stuff I said if I don't love it, if I didn't love it when she had it, I can get rid of it. 

[00:07:42] Jami Shapiro: Okay, so what what ended up happening for me and my experience is that I had a new baby. And for any of you who have ever had a baby, they put things in their mouth and you have to be really careful about your environments.

[00:07:53] Jami Shapiro: And so I did not feel comfortable with my infant toddler being in my mom's home. So that started the divide of, me not going into her home. But the other thing that was happening for me was, again, I can't handle a lot of. Clutter. And it would get me really frustrated with my mom.

[00:08:09] Jami Shapiro: And so that was just a battle that we have continued to have up until. Really recently when I finally put all of the pieces together. So the other thing my mom's clutter has always been a source of contention between both of us. But another thing is that we are both emotionally dysregulated. And so my mom and she admits we've had this conversation as a young child, I was, her only child would put a lot of.

[00:08:38] Jami Shapiro: Her, depression and the things that she was going through on me. And I felt the responsibility from a young child to fix my mom's problems. And so it just became heavy. was just really heavy. So I'm feeling resentment towards my mom. I'm acting out.

[00:08:55] Jami Shapiro: And by the way, I don't have a filter, which is, definitely part of many of our problems when we have ADHD. And so if I thought it, I said it. I was frustrated and I was lashing out. And I even remember now thinking back when I would get in trouble as a young child and I don't know if you remember this, but she'd lock me in my room and we had an apartment that had those metal closet doors, and I'd start throwing things at the closet door just make kicking.

[00:09:22] Jami Shapiro: Yeah,I was pretty violent too. And, my mom and we have, our relationship has been very, very strained. And I would buy my mom exercise equipment, to try to get her exercise. I've hired a professional organizer before I tried first myself. That didn't go well. I hired, this is again, before we knew any of this, ADHD stuff.

[00:09:42] Jami Shapiro: I hired a professional organizer that didn't solve the problem. Like just there wasn't a way to solve it. Kept seeing it as a problem that I was responsible for solving. Right? Mm-hmm. Absolutely. and I also think you should talk about your experience. So as I have shared, in a lot of what I've said, I have a really, really bright mom.

[00:10:05] Jami Shapiro: But when you are beaten down your entire life or you have negative Self-talk, then you don't see yourself that way. You start to see yourself the way other people have seen you. And when you have ADHD, it's like, oh, you have so much potential, or why can't you get it together? And these are the messages that we are hearing as young children.

[00:10:23] Jami Shapiro: And again, my mom. Started to absorb those messages and I have brought my book to my mom. So I buy my mother a computer and I'm like, mom, I really want you to represent the boomers and your generation of women who are going to be discovering that they have ADHD. I kind of want you to be the poster child since you're the original grandma.

[00:10:46] Jami Shapiro: And so I sent my mom a computer and I'm like, okay, mom, I'm gonna do a Zoom call and I'm gonna walk you through how to use it and share the screen. Well, my mom could not figure out how. to set the computer up. Now, if you had asked me two years ago, I would've been furious, like, mom, why can't you do it?

[00:11:04] Jami Shapiro: And I would lose my patience with my mom. And now I have a new understanding and I see myself struggling with technology and I get super frustrated and then I shut it down, so it's gonna be even harder for my mom. So I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna fly out to Jacksonville. We're gonna sit down and we're gonna work on this together.

[00:11:22] Jami Shapiro: And I have to tell you. My mother, once I get the thing set up for her, she's now editing in Google and every single edit that she has done to the book is like, I mean, she's just brilliant. But you are, see if you saw my mother, she's like, no, no, no. She's super bright. Like she's super bright, but no one ever fed into that.

[00:11:42] Jami Shapiro: And it's like had we known about ADHD back then. You would've been on probably medication, the right medication, not being treated for anxiety and depression, but what's behind the anxiety and the depression? I have no doubt you would've finished college and who knows what you would've done. and the reason that I'm so much that there's grief and relief behind this podcast is that I can imagine a mom you can share like how, this makes you feel when you reflect on what it would've been.

[00:12:14] Vicki: Oh, I spent a lot of money on therapy, a lot of years in therapy. A lot of money on antidepressants. it was overwhelming. And when I found out that I had ADHD, my friend said, no, you don't. And I said, yes, I do. Well because I'm not hyper. my mind is hyper and constantly running. But I lost my train of thought.

[00:12:41] Jami Shapiro: So it's an ADHD thing. So you were saying that your friends, that's ADHD. Yeah. See now my mom's like, oh, it's not a senior moment, ADHD. She's like, yeah. Everything is ADHD. Just like me. Everything is ADHD. But what, we say ADHD is an explanation, not an excuse, but what I was trying to get at Mom is that, They're probably a lot of adult children and parents or, mothers and daughters like we are. And I know because I've heard so many clients come to me who have frustrated with their mothers, who like, I can't get her to clean it up. I can't, and I'm like, I understand that's the experience that I've had, since my twenties.

[00:13:14] Jami Shapiro: And now I have an understanding of the reason that it was never that my mom was, lazy or she was just battling something that she didn't even know she was battling. And so that's why I said, mom, I would imagine that it feels really, hard to think that if we had known, my life would've been different.

[00:13:35] Vicki: I definitely think so. I would've understood you better. And your hyperactivity. Jami was hyper from the time I carried her. I mean, all the moving parts were going, and I am a very sedentary person. I read, and I don't have to move anything to read except the pages or my fingers.

[00:13:57] Vicki: And she was hyper and well, I knew that her father was that way. So I understood that much, but it was very frustrating to deal with a child when your interests are different when you don't understand them. 

[00:14:12] Jami Shapiro: But I'm talking about, yes, I agree with that. But also I think that your frustration with your own life.

[00:14:20] Vicki: Mm-hmm. Oh, definitely. I look back and I think of all the mistakes I've made. And I cringe because if I had known what I was dealing with, maybe I wouldn't have made the mistakes I made. I'm still kicking myself and I'm trying at this point in my life to let them go. But there were mistakes I made that may be given.

[00:14:47] Vicki: If somebody had understood that I had ADHD and I was medicated properly, I wouldn't have made the mistakes or I would've had better thought processes. And so I feel an empathy for my mom, but I also, one of the biggest whys behind this podcast is that, as Maya Angelou said, when you know better, you do better.

[00:15:14] Jami Shapiro: And, we cannot change the mistakes that we've made and the decisions that we've made and what we did or did not know. All we can do is move forward from what we have and what we do know. And one of the reasons that I wanted my mom to co-write the book with me was and as I've shared, I had cancer 20 years ago and I used that.

[00:15:36] Jami Shapiro: Experience to help other people because my feeling is if I am going to suffer, I want that to be for the better of other people. And I think that's definitely part of our social justice. One of the good things of ADHD is, we want to make it better for other people. So if you are listening to this and you feel like my mom and you wish you had known the history of ADHD.

[00:16:02] Jami Shapiro: Sorry. I was actually listening to a podcast with Dr. Daniel Aman, who is a brain specialist, and he is done all these brain scans and he says, We can see ADHD, in biblical references. And when you look at the Salem Witch trials and you look at the reason those women were persecuted a lot of them were consistent with ADHD symptoms.

[00:16:20] Jami Shapiro: They happened to be women in their forties. Well, what happens to women in their forties? Mom? Menopause for the most part, or perimenopause. So an estrogen is precognitive and estrogen impacts the way that our ADHD expresses, which is also one of the things I learned that women with ADHD tend to have worse periods.

[00:16:38] Jami Shapiro: we tend to have more heightened emotion. I used to feel like I could crawl out of my skin. I was. So angry. And now I understand that was what was going on. But one of the things that happened as a result of all of this is I'm looking at, oh my gosh, if we had been alive, then we would've been persecuted for our ADHD.

[00:16:57] Jami Shapiro: And then I called my mom, like two weeks ago and I said, Hey mom, I'm really sorry I've been persecuting you for these things. And that is transforming our relationship. It 

[00:17:11] Vicki: really has. it's been wonderful. It was the relationship I always wished we had. I had a great relationship with my mother and I expected to have the same with my daughter and to not have it was crushing it.

[00:17:26] Vicki: It was so devastating. And I would listen to other people say, oh, I don't get along with my daughter. I go. I always got along with my mother. How come my daughter and I don't get along when that's what I wanted so much. And one of the challenges of ADHD is the emotional dysregulation that comes from it.

[00:17:45] Jami Shapiro: So I am pretty sure as my mom is that my grandfather likely had ADHD. We're not sure if my grandmother did. But my mom was emotionally dysregulated. I'm emotionally dysregulated, which means that we react to things in ways that may not be fitting of the situation. Like me throwing things, kicking doors when I was frustrated and when you also grow up with a parent who is.

[00:18:09] Jami Shapiro: Emotionally, I'm gonna use the word unstable. You walk on eggshells because you never know what you're going to get. and so then we pass that down to our children and that's where I think a lot of that generational trauma comes from. So if you are listening and you can relate to this message and hear what we are saying, I think that understanding the impact of ADHD could transform your relationship when you recognize that, I we have both been facing something that neither of us knew that we were facing, and now we do.

[00:18:41] Jami Shapiro: we were laughing at over dinner last night reading memes of ADHD because we could so relate to all of the funny memes. So when we come back. Cause, we're gonna take a pause. I gotta take another sip of water. I'm going to give you a little behind the scenes of what's going on in my mom's home as we're going through her stuff.

[00:18:59] Jami Shapiro: So hang on. and wait. Oh, by the way, if you're enjoying this podcast, please like it. Comment on it and share it because the only way that we're ever going to build the awareness that this is happening, that it doesn't stop because, we're 50 years old. ADHD is not, the little boy is going to outgrow it.

[00:19:19] Jami Shapiro: And it's not just a little boy and it is not going to be outgrown. It's just going to change in the way that it's presented. So please share this and join. Grandma has ADHD. It is a very slowly growing community, but one that I know is going to build, especially when I am done writing this book and can put more focus on that.

[00:19:38] Jami Shapiro: So hang, hang with us. We'll be right back.

 

Are you tired of feeling like you can't get it together? Struggling with clutter that overwhelms you despite your best efforts. Wondering why organization feels impossible while others make it look so easy. You are not alone and it's not your fault. Hi, I'm Jami Shapiro. Host of the grandma has ADHD podcast and I understand exactly what you're going through.

I combine my years of hands-on work as founder of Silver Linings Transitions, a move management and home organizing company, together with ADHD coach, training and help adults 50 and over connect the dots between ADHD and lifelong struggles. Whether you are downsizing, decluttering, or simply trying to create systems that work for your ADHD brain, I provide virtual and in-person coaching for those in the San Diego area.

Together we'll develop practical strategies that honor how your brain actually works, not how you think it should work, ready to trade. Shame for understanding. Visit Grandma has adhd.com. Or call to schedule a discovery session at 7 6 0 6 0 7 7 3 7 7 because it's never too late to finally make sense of your story.

 

Ever wondered why helping a loved one declutter feels like speaking different languages? I did, especially with my mom. It wasn't until I founded Silver Linings Transitions helping San Diego seniors organize and move for over a decade that I discovered why we all experienced clutter differently. And for those of us with ADHD, it's a whole other world.

If you are listening in the San Diego area and feeling stuck with moving. Paperwork, photos or home organization. Our team at Silver Linings Transitions gets it. We understand ADHD's unique challenges and we won't just help you get organized. We'll create sustainable systems that. Finally stick Schedule a consultation with our team today at 7 6 0 5 2 2 1 6 2 4.

That's 7 6 0 5 2 2 1 6 2 4 or find us@silverliningstransitions.com.

 

[00:22:20] Jami Shapiro: My mom, Vicki, and I wanna acknowledge how vulnerable she is being letting you behind the scenes of her place. And as I explained to my mom what you are seeing in my mom's place is pretty common to what you would see if you walked into other, I would say women who have ADHD men too. But women are the ones that are the lion's share of having to maintain homes.

[00:22:43] Jami Shapiro: And so, the reflection of a home is usually on the woman. and not necessarily on the man, but I mean, definitely have seen it in homes where there is a single man. But we're gonna take a tour. Okay, mom? Absolutely. Okay. So, you'll notice, which is very common, stacks of lots of different, mismatched things.

[00:23:02] Jami Shapiro: I'm gonna take you back. Super creative. I also wanna acknowledge, like my mom she knows how to put pictures together. My mom has, lots of the loose site bins for storage. She has, collections of things. Lots of collections. Like you can't see what the glare. And like, here's a pumpkin collection.

[00:23:21] Jami Shapiro: I love this. Here's the beads, the collection of buttons that my mom is collecting just to collect. Maybe there'll be an art project one day some really cute plants and planters. Here is another curio, this amazing grace is has I been claimed by my oldest child?

[00:23:37] Jami Shapiro: Will, more. I love, I will say I love the way my mom puts her art together. And, granted, she lives in a small space. This belonged to my grandmother right here. But definitely an accumulation issue for sure. And if you had asked me a couple of years ago, and especially when you see the piles.

[00:23:57] Jami Shapiro: Stuck of everything. I would've said, oh, my mom has hoarding disorder. But as I have come to understand hoarding disorder the reasons behind the stuff are very different. When I actually said to my mom, Hey, if there was a needy family and I wanted to take some of these things. For them, would you let me take them?

[00:24:15] Jami Shapiro: And she said, of course. And for me, that's a big distinction. She does not have a physically sick reaction. she's not gonna be comfortable with me taking her things, but she also isn't going to get, absolutely sick to her stomach as I would, if you told me I was going to have to ride a rollercoaster, I would really get sick to my stomach.

[00:24:35] Jami Shapiro: So, mom, thank you for letting me, anything you wanna say? New. What was the rollercoaster bit? I said that if you told me I had to ride a rollercoaster, I would get sick to my stomach, like I would feel sick and somebody that has hoarding disorder. If I said, I'm coming into your home and I'm gonna start organizing, that's how they feel.

[00:24:57] Jami Shapiro: How would you feel if I said I'm gonna start organizing thrills? There is the difference in my opinion between ADHD and hoarding disorder. Thank you, mom, for being the poster child of your generation.

 

The opinions expressed on Grandma has ADHD podcast are those of our guests and hosts and are intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. This podcast does not provide medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The content discussed in this episode is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health, professional, or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or mental health concern. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast.

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EP 50: Jami and Mom

Have you ever thought, is this just me? When struggling to stay organized, start tasks, or manage time, for those of us over 50, these challenges might not be just aging. They could be ADHD hiding in plain sight for decades. I'm Jami Shapiro, host of Grandma has ADHD, and I'm building a community where your experiences matter.

Whether you are diagnosed, questioning or simply curious. You are not alone. Our Facebook group is filled with vibrant understanding. People over 50 who share their stories, strategies, and yes, even their struggles with plenty of laughter along the way. Ready to find your people. Join our growing grandma has ADHD Facebook community.

Please like and subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and share it with someone who might need to hear. They're not alone because ADHD doesn't have an age limit and neither does understanding yourself better. Together, we're changing the conversation about ADHD after 50 come be part of the story.

 

[00:01:29] Jami Shapiro: Welcome to episode 50 of Listen of Grandma has ADHD. If you are listening to this Podcast then you are not getting the privilege of seeing my mom, Vicki, in her natural habitat. I am visiting Jacksonville, where we are working together to finish the book that I have. Just started telling everybody that I'm doing because it's daunting and when you start telling people, then you actually have to do it.

[00:02:01] Jami Shapiro: The book is going to be called, this explains so much for people who have too much, kinda like my mom, who feel too much, pretty much everybody with ADHD And people who have been told there too much, and that has been my experience when I'm constantly asked to take it down a notch. So mom. Thank you.

[00:02:27] Vicki: You're welcome.

[00:02:28] Jami Shapiro:

[00:02:28] Vicki: and welcome to my abode.

[00:02:31] Jami Shapiro: So it's funny because I'm in my mom's home and I have been very open in the book, but not really on the podcast that I have really avoided being in my mom's home. It really started when I graduated from college my mom had gone through a divorce.

[00:02:50] Jami Shapiro: From my stepfather, and I had moved in after college. So I'm in my twenties, my mom's in her forties. And that's when the accumulation really began and I became aware of it. And then I would say to my mom when she would bring things in from the latest garage, shale or the sale Mom, did you really need that, right?

[00:03:10] Jami Shapiro: Mm-hmm. And how did that make you feel?

[00:03:14] Vicki: A little angry. Defensive. I always felt like I wasn't asking you for anything and it was my money and it was so much fun garage sailing that it kind of took a little bit of the joy out of it. I didn't start garage sailing until I was divorced the second time.

[00:03:37] Vicki: And I made friends with girls. We went every Saturday, and it was a thrill of the chase at that point.

[00:03:45] Vicki:

[00:03:45] Jami Shapiro: so for me, the clutter, and I share this in the book and I share it when I present clutter. We all have different clutter tolerance levels. For me it was. Too much. I was processing, taking in too much and my mom and I agreed that I should move out because it was not healthy for our relationship.

[00:04:04] Jami Shapiro: And my mom's clutter has continued to get worse through the years. And I share that when my mother closed on her first townhouse on a Friday. I'm gonna have to pause 'cause I've got that morning frog in my throat. Mom, you're gonna remember exactly where we were in this conversation, right?

[00:04:24] Jami Shapiro: Because I'll forget. All right. Hold on. So we are back and I have gotten rid of that frog in my throat. As I was sharing the story, my mother closed on her town home on a Friday. And I think my grandfather had gone into hospice the day before and he passed away Sunday. So if anyone has ever moved, whether you are neurodivergent or typical the likelihood, unless you've hired a senior move manager to come in and help you of you having your home unpacked right after you move in is slim to none. But when you throw in a death and all that comes with it, you're not probably going to unpack. And my mother was caring for my grandmother dealing with her own grief, and so my mom's unpacking really never occurred.

[00:05:14] Jami Shapiro: To the extent that it needed to. And then nine months later, my grandmother died unexpectedly and my grandmother was my mother's best friend, and my mother was not prepared to get rid of my grandmother's things. And so anything that wasn't obvious trash or someone else in the family didn't take, or like medical equipment that my mother was able to donate came into my mom's place.

[00:05:38] Jami Shapiro: I had a baby at the time. And my mom just never dealt with it. And now I see that it was because she was completely overwhelmed by everything that had to be done, and she was grieving. And there's also something called grief hoarding, which is when we lose a loved one we wanna hold onto their things to remember them.

[00:06:01] Jami Shapiro: And, so, mom, what was going on for you?

[00:06:04] Vicki: Well your uncle and his wife. Actually packed up my mother's condo and packed it into boxes and they said, what do you want me to do with it? And I said, bring it to my house. So it looked like a train. There were just boxes lined through the living room and into the dining room, just one after the other.

[00:06:29] Vicki: And my brother said, well, you're gonna go through this, right? And I said, yeah. And. Every time I would open a box, I would go through it and then I'd put everything back and I just couldn't get rid of it. And so my brother finally said, put it in storage. I'll pay for it for six months. And you go over there and go through it and get rid of the stuff.

[00:06:56] Vicki: I didn't do that either. Couldn't do that. So I brought it back to my house, started going through it again, and this time I was able to get rid of some of the stuff. That I didn't love.

[00:07:10] Jami Shapiro: Mm-hmm.

[00:07:11] Vicki: I didn't know my mother was collecting tropical fish and napkin holders and napkin rings and stuff like that.

[00:07:19] Vicki: I had never noticed it in her house and I don't like these, so I got rid of 'em. Some of the stuff I put in an antique booth, which.

[00:07:28] Jami Shapiro: Mom, we, we got a half an hour-ish on this. Okay. Like, you can't, but like, we don't, they don't need everything what you did with it. Okay. But it was more like how you were feeling.

[00:07:34] Vicki: Yeah. I still couldn't get rid of it. There was some stuff I said if I don't love it, if I didn't love it when she had it, I can get rid of it.

[00:07:42] Jami Shapiro: Okay, so what what ended up happening for me and my experience is that I had a new baby. And for any of you who have ever had a baby, they put things in their mouth and you have to be really careful about your environments.

[00:07:53] Jami Shapiro: And so I did not feel comfortable with my infant toddler being in my mom's home. So that started the divide of, me not going into her home. But the other thing that was happening for me was, again, I can't handle a lot of. Clutter. And it would get me really frustrated with my mom.

[00:08:09] Jami Shapiro: And so that was just a battle that we have continued to have up until. Really recently when I finally put all of the pieces together. So the other thing my mom's clutter has always been a source of contention between both of us. But another thing is that we are both emotionally dysregulated. And so my mom and she admits we've had this conversation as a young child, I was, her only child would put a lot of.

[00:08:38] Jami Shapiro: Her, depression and the things that she was going through on me. And I felt the responsibility from a young child to fix my mom's problems. And so it just became heavy. was just really heavy. So I'm feeling resentment towards my mom. I'm acting out.

[00:08:55] Jami Shapiro: And by the way, I don't have a filter, which is, definitely part of many of our problems when we have ADHD. And so if I thought it, I said it. I was frustrated and I was lashing out. And I even remember now thinking back when I would get in trouble as a young child and I don't know if you remember this, but she'd lock me in my room and we had an apartment that had those metal closet doors, and I'd start throwing things at the closet door just make kicking.

[00:09:22] Jami Shapiro: Yeah,I was pretty violent too. And, my mom and we have, our relationship has been very, very strained. And I would buy my mom exercise equipment, to try to get her exercise. I've hired a professional organizer before I tried first myself. That didn't go well. I hired, this is again, before we knew any of this, ADHD stuff.

[00:09:42] Jami Shapiro: I hired a professional organizer that didn't solve the problem. Like just there wasn't a way to solve it. Kept seeing it as a problem that I was responsible for solving. Right? Mm-hmm. Absolutely. and I also think you should talk about your experience. So as I have shared, in a lot of what I've said, I have a really, really bright mom.

[00:10:05] Jami Shapiro: But when you are beaten down your entire life or you have negative Self-talk, then you don't see yourself that way. You start to see yourself the way other people have seen you. And when you have ADHD, it's like, oh, you have so much potential, or why can't you get it together? And these are the messages that we are hearing as young children.

[00:10:23] Jami Shapiro: And again, my mom. Started to absorb those messages and I have brought my book to my mom. So I buy my mother a computer and I'm like, mom, I really want you to represent the boomers and your generation of women who are going to be discovering that they have ADHD. I kind of want you to be the poster child since you're the original grandma.

[00:10:46] Jami Shapiro: And so I sent my mom a computer and I'm like, okay, mom, I'm gonna do a Zoom call and I'm gonna walk you through how to use it and share the screen. Well, my mom could not figure out how. to set the computer up. Now, if you had asked me two years ago, I would've been furious, like, mom, why can't you do it?

[00:11:04] Jami Shapiro: And I would lose my patience with my mom. And now I have a new understanding and I see myself struggling with technology and I get super frustrated and then I shut it down, so it's gonna be even harder for my mom. So I'm like, you know what? I'm gonna fly out to Jacksonville. We're gonna sit down and we're gonna work on this together.

[00:11:22] Jami Shapiro: And I have to tell you. My mother, once I get the thing set up for her, she's now editing in Google and every single edit that she has done to the book is like, I mean, she's just brilliant. But you are, see if you saw my mother, she's like, no, no, no. She's super bright. Like she's super bright, but no one ever fed into that.

[00:11:42] Jami Shapiro: And it's like had we known about ADHD back then. You would've been on probably medication, the right medication, not being treated for anxiety and depression, but what's behind the anxiety and the depression? I have no doubt you would've finished college and who knows what you would've done. and the reason that I'm so much that there's grief and relief behind this podcast is that I can imagine a mom you can share like how, this makes you feel when you reflect on what it would've been.

[00:12:14] Vicki: Oh, I spent a lot of money on therapy, a lot of years in therapy. A lot of money on antidepressants. it was overwhelming. And when I found out that I had ADHD, my friend said, no, you don't. And I said, yes, I do. Well because I'm not hyper. my mind is hyper and constantly running. But I lost my train of thought.

[00:12:41] Jami Shapiro: So it's an ADHD thing. So you were saying that your friends, that's ADHD. Yeah. See now my mom's like, oh, it's not a senior moment, ADHD. She's like, yeah. Everything is ADHD. Just like me. Everything is ADHD. But what, we say ADHD is an explanation, not an excuse, but what I was trying to get at Mom is that, They're probably a lot of adult children and parents or, mothers and daughters like we are. And I know because I've heard so many clients come to me who have frustrated with their mothers, who like, I can't get her to clean it up. I can't, and I'm like, I understand that's the experience that I've had, since my twenties.

[00:13:14] Jami Shapiro: And now I have an understanding of the reason that it was never that my mom was, lazy or she was just battling something that she didn't even know she was battling. And so that's why I said, mom, I would imagine that it feels really, hard to think that if we had known, my life would've been different.

[00:13:35] Vicki: I definitely think so. I would've understood you better. And your hyperactivity. Jami was hyper from the time I carried her. I mean, all the moving parts were going, and I am a very sedentary person. I read, and I don't have to move anything to read except the pages or my fingers.

[00:13:57] Vicki: And she was hyper and well, I knew that her father was that way. So I understood that much, but it was very frustrating to deal with a child when your interests are different when you don't understand them.

[00:14:12] Jami Shapiro: But I'm talking about, yes, I agree with that. But also I think that your frustration with your own life.

[00:14:20] Vicki: Mm-hmm. Oh, definitely. I look back and I think of all the mistakes I've made. And I cringe because if I had known what I was dealing with, maybe I wouldn't have made the mistakes I made. I'm still kicking myself and I'm trying at this point in my life to let them go. But there were mistakes I made that may be given.

[00:14:47] Vicki: If somebody had understood that I had ADHD and I was medicated properly, I wouldn't have made the mistakes or I would've had better thought processes. And so I feel an empathy for my mom, but I also, one of the biggest whys behind this podcast is that, as Maya Angelou said, when you know better, you do better.

[00:15:14] Jami Shapiro: And, we cannot change the mistakes that we've made and the decisions that we've made and what we did or did not know. All we can do is move forward from what we have and what we do know. And one of the reasons that I wanted my mom to co-write the book with me was and as I've shared, I had cancer 20 years ago and I used that.

[00:15:36] Jami Shapiro: Experience to help other people because my feeling is if I am going to suffer, I want that to be for the better of other people. And I think that's definitely part of our social justice. One of the good things of ADHD is, we want to make it better for other people. So if you are listening to this and you feel like my mom and you wish you had known the history of ADHD.

[00:16:02] Jami Shapiro: Sorry. I was actually listening to a podcast with Dr. Daniel Aman, who is a brain specialist, and he is done all these brain scans and he says, We can see ADHD, in biblical references. And when you look at the Salem Witch trials and you look at the reason those women were persecuted a lot of them were consistent with ADHD symptoms.

[00:16:20] Jami Shapiro: They happened to be women in their forties. Well, what happens to women in their forties? Mom? Menopause for the most part, or perimenopause. So an estrogen is precognitive and estrogen impacts the way that our ADHD expresses, which is also one of the things I learned that women with ADHD tend to have worse periods.

[00:16:38] Jami Shapiro: we tend to have more heightened emotion. I used to feel like I could crawl out of my skin. I was. So angry. And now I understand that was what was going on. But one of the things that happened as a result of all of this is I'm looking at, oh my gosh, if we had been alive, then we would've been persecuted for our ADHD.

[00:16:57] Jami Shapiro: And then I called my mom, like two weeks ago and I said, Hey mom, I'm really sorry I've been persecuting you for these things. And that is transforming our relationship. It

[00:17:11] Vicki: really has. it's been wonderful. It was the relationship I always wished we had. I had a great relationship with my mother and I expected to have the same with my daughter and to not have it was crushing it.

[00:17:26] Vicki: It was so devastating. And I would listen to other people say, oh, I don't get along with my daughter. I go. I always got along with my mother. How come my daughter and I don't get along when that's what I wanted so much. And one of the challenges of ADHD is the emotional dysregulation that comes from it.

[00:17:45] Jami Shapiro: So I am pretty sure as my mom is that my grandfather likely had ADHD. We're not sure if my grandmother did. But my mom was emotionally dysregulated. I'm emotionally dysregulated, which means that we react to things in ways that may not be fitting of the situation. Like me throwing things, kicking doors when I was frustrated and when you also grow up with a parent who is.

[00:18:09] Jami Shapiro: Emotionally, I'm gonna use the word unstable. You walk on eggshells because you never know what you're going to get. and so then we pass that down to our children and that's where I think a lot of that generational trauma comes from. So if you are listening and you can relate to this message and hear what we are saying, I think that understanding the impact of ADHD could transform your relationship when you recognize that, I we have both been facing something that neither of us knew that we were facing, and now we do.

[00:18:41] Jami Shapiro: we were laughing at over dinner last night reading memes of ADHD because we could so relate to all of the funny memes. So when we come back. Cause, we're gonna take a pause. I gotta take another sip of water. I'm going to give you a little behind the scenes of what's going on in my mom's home as we're going through her stuff.

[00:18:59] Jami Shapiro: So hang on. and wait. Oh, by the way, if you're enjoying this podcast, please like it. Comment on it and share it because the only way that we're ever going to build the awareness that this is happening, that it doesn't stop because, we're 50 years old. ADHD is not, the little boy is going to outgrow it.

[00:19:19] Jami Shapiro: And it's not just a little boy and it is not going to be outgrown. It's just going to change in the way that it's presented. So please share this and join. Grandma has ADHD. It is a very slowly growing community, but one that I know is going to build, especially when I am done writing this book and can put more focus on that.

[00:19:38] Jami Shapiro: So hang, hang with us. We'll be right back.

 

Are you tired of feeling like you can't get it together? Struggling with clutter that overwhelms you despite your best efforts. Wondering why organization feels impossible while others make it look so easy. You are not alone and it's not your fault. Hi, I'm Jami Shapiro. Host of the grandma has ADHD podcast and I understand exactly what you're going through.

I combine my years of hands-on work as founder of Silver Linings Transitions, a move management and home organizing company, together with ADHD coach, training and help adults 50 and over connect the dots between ADHD and lifelong struggles. Whether you are downsizing, decluttering, or simply trying to create systems that work for your ADHD brain, I provide virtual and in-person coaching for those in the San Diego area.

Together we'll develop practical strategies that honor how your brain actually works, not how you think it should work, ready to trade. Shame for understanding. Visit Grandma has adhd.com. Or call to schedule a discovery session at 7 6 0 6 0 7 7 3 7 7 because it's never too late to finally make sense of your story.

 

Ever wondered why helping a loved one declutter feels like speaking different languages? I did, especially with my mom. It wasn't until I founded Silver Linings Transitions helping San Diego seniors organize and move for over a decade that I discovered why we all experienced clutter differently. And for those of us with ADHD, it's a whole other world.

If you are listening in the San Diego area and feeling stuck with moving. Paperwork, photos or home organization. Our team at Silver Linings Transitions gets it. We understand ADHD's unique challenges and we won't just help you get organized. We'll create sustainable systems that. Finally stick Schedule a consultation with our team today at 7 6 0 5 2 2 1 6 2 4.

That's 7 6 0 5 2 2 1 6 2 4 or find us@silverliningstransitions.com.

 

[00:22:20] Jami Shapiro: My mom, Vicki, and I wanna acknowledge how vulnerable she is being letting you behind the scenes of her place. And as I explained to my mom what you are seeing in my mom's place is pretty common to what you would see if you walked into other, I would say women who have ADHD men too. But women are the ones that are the lion's share of having to maintain homes.

[00:22:43] Jami Shapiro: And so, the reflection of a home is usually on the woman. and not necessarily on the man, but I mean, definitely have seen it in homes where there is a single man. But we're gonna take a tour. Okay, mom? Absolutely. Okay. So, you'll notice, which is very common, stacks of lots of different, mismatched things.

[00:23:02] Jami Shapiro: I'm gonna take you back. Super creative. I also wanna acknowledge, like my mom she knows how to put pictures together. My mom has, lots of the loose site bins for storage. She has, collections of things. Lots of collections. Like you can't see what the glare. And like, here's a pumpkin collection.

[00:23:21] Jami Shapiro: I love this. Here's the beads, the collection of buttons that my mom is collecting just to collect. Maybe there'll be an art project one day some really cute plants and planters. Here is another curio, this amazing grace is has I been claimed by my oldest child?

[00:23:37] Jami Shapiro: Will, more. I love, I will say I love the way my mom puts her art together. And, granted, she lives in a small space. This belonged to my grandmother right here. But definitely an accumulation issue for sure. And if you had asked me a couple of years ago, and especially when you see the piles.

[00:23:57] Jami Shapiro: Stuck of everything. I would've said, oh, my mom has hoarding disorder. But as I have come to understand hoarding disorder the reasons behind the stuff are very different. When I actually said to my mom, Hey, if there was a needy family and I wanted to take some of these things. For them, would you let me take them?

[00:24:15] Jami Shapiro: And she said, of course. And for me, that's a big distinction. She does not have a physically sick reaction. she's not gonna be comfortable with me taking her things, but she also isn't going to get, absolutely sick to her stomach as I would, if you told me I was going to have to ride a rollercoaster, I would really get sick to my stomach.

[00:24:35] Jami Shapiro: So, mom, thank you for letting me, anything you wanna say? New. What was the rollercoaster bit? I said that if you told me I had to ride a rollercoaster, I would get sick to my stomach, like I would feel sick and somebody that has hoarding disorder. If I said, I'm coming into your home and I'm gonna start organizing, that's how they feel.

[00:24:57] Jami Shapiro: How would you feel if I said I'm gonna start organizing thrills? There is the difference in my opinion between ADHD and hoarding disorder. Thank you, mom, for being the poster child of your generation.

 

[00:25:14] Jami Shapiro: So For all of you who have been listening to the podcast and how it's iterated I now use a microphone because I recognize that the sound is better, but it was hard to have the microphone interviewing my mom, so we just listened to make sure that the sound was good enough.

[00:25:33] Jami Shapiro: Because remember, perfect is the enemy of done. So we are back with part two of our. Interview and I thought it would be sort of fun to take you on a journey. I asked my mom, I said, mom, would it be okay if I, toured people around your home? And mom, your first reaction was what? And then I said, mom, I see this.

[00:25:59] Jami Shapiro: All the time. which is why I am getting this message out. And I said, but you are my mom, so I can ask you to do it. I can't ask one of my clients. but the reality is, until we start openly sharing who we are then we're never going to de-stigmatize this. And, the reality is.

[00:26:19] Jami Shapiro: there are so many people, if they took a tour of your home, would be like, my house looks like that, or My house is worse than that. And by the way, you have some really cool collections. Thank you. Really, really cool. And I did say, and I wanna bring a little bit of my work as a senior move manager into this, which is also going to be part of the book.

[00:26:37] Jami Shapiro: I am, my mom's only child, I live in California. She is in Florida. And when she passes, 'cause I think we both hope she goes before me. I don't want to be having to make all of these decisions. And, especially grieving and having to go through all of these things. And because I'm in California, I can't bring it all with me.

[00:26:59] Jami Shapiro: I don't have the space for it, and it would be really expensive. So it's really important that my mom. Either identifies, what's important so that I am very clear. And by the way she has a cookie jar that when we were touring with Will, my oldest child who's also been on the podcast immediately will said they wanted the Amazing Grace cookie jar.

[00:27:20] Jami Shapiro: So my mom actually was delighted because that's her favorite thing, and we now know that is claimed. Interestingly, when my grandmother passed away unexpectedly, my mom wanted me to take her China I was her only grandchild. And I said to my mom, I don't even use the China that I registered for two years ago.

[00:27:39] Jami Shapiro: I don't want Grandma's China. And by the way, this is true. I adored my grandmother. So it wasn't that I didn't love her and I don't remember her, but I didn't want her Chyna. So I always told people that the Chyna was donated. That's what I thought happened. Well, no, when I was touring my mom's house, I saw it in the curio cabinet.

[00:27:58] Jami Shapiro: Mom, do you use that China?

[00:28:00] Vicki: No. No.

[00:28:02] Jami Shapiro: So this is sort of like we're kind of opening, we're revealing what's behind the mask of Dr. Oz. So I said, mom, I wanna start, and I kinda show her in her apartment kind of the things that I'm going, But you'll have to watch that one on YouTube or on the Grandma has ADHD page. But I started like bringing things out to say, Hey mom, do you need this? Do you need this? so we're gonna play a little of that but I'll start with, here's some really good ones.

[00:28:27] Jami Shapiro: And I say that ADHD has been hiding in plain sight. This is funny. My mother bought this dish towel. it's got a rooster on it. It says, hold on, let me overthink this. That is, so ADHD I would actually take this towel. The other day I needed to write something, a note to will for the book cover.

[00:28:45] Jami Shapiro: And I said, mom, do you even need paper and pens? So she goes and finds the first notebook she can find. And in that notebook, which you said belonged to my grandmother there is this postcard. It was me as a realtor back in 2002. And it's a postcard that I would have. Mailed. Can we throw this away, mom?

[00:29:06] Vicki: Yeah.

[00:29:07] Jami Shapiro: Did you see the pause? She didn't wanna throw it away. It's a picture of you. I mean, it's some, you have plenty of pictures of me.

[00:29:14] Jami Shapiro:

[00:29:14] Jami Shapiro: Okay. do you identify with this message? Okay, then I see a stack of magazines next to the bathroom. And by the way, it's not the only stack of magazine.

[00:29:23] Jami Shapiro: It's one of many, many stacks of magazines. I'm like, mom. Do you need this magazine from May of 2022?

[00:29:31] Vicki: Yes.

[00:29:31] Jami Shapiro: What, what'd you say?

[00:29:33] Vicki: Yes.

[00:29:33] Jami Shapiro: You said what?

[00:29:35] Vicki:

[00:29:35] Vicki: I still read them. I still read them.

[00:29:37] Jami Shapiro: Like, mom, if you lived for 100 more years, I don't think you could read every single thing that's in your house.

[00:29:47] Jami Shapiro: I don't read everything.

[00:29:49] Jami Shapiro: I flip through the magazines when it's something I like, I tear it out and save it. So you like this whole magazine? No. I still need to go through it. There was something in there I was saving.

[00:30:00] Jami Shapiro: Can you identify by the way? All right then. I saw this in her bathroom. This is so necessary. It's a three in one skin treatment tool that you put a battery in and you can apply the mask.

[00:30:12] Jami Shapiro: Now, I don't know about you. My fingers were great for applying a mask. I like to scrub. I like the feeling of getting it really clean. Right.

[00:30:25] Jami Shapiro: Do you have loofahs?

[00:30:27] Vicki: I don't like loofahs. I don't feel like they're clean. Okay. But

[00:30:28] Jami Shapiro: this is really great, right?

[00:30:29] Vicki:

[00:30:29] Jami Shapiro: And that's why it's still in the package.

[00:30:31] Jami Shapiro: Right? Okay. And then, there's a jar of buttons. It's very cool. And my mom said, what'd you say? I like them. I like collecting them.

[00:30:40] Vicki: Right. They're in a jar. They're not hurting anybody. They're all in one place. Mm-hmm. And most of my collections, almost all of my collections are in one place.

[00:30:53] Vicki: Well, Jami has issue with that.

[00:30:55] Jami Shapiro: They're not in one place. They're in one place in lots of places. But, now I have humor. And now This is like the poster child for undiagnosed ADHD as a boomer. I'm sure by the way, my child finally admitted that yes, their apartment looked very similar to their grandmother's apartment because when I went to visit, I'm like.

[00:31:17] Jami Shapiro: Huh but didn't. And then when they toured my mom's place, they were like, yeah. For those of you who hear me identifying my child as they are non-binary and they prefer they them pronouns. And it's really important to my child that I advocate. For their community. And I loved the example that my former mother-in-law call her my mother outlaw.

[00:31:38] Jami Shapiro: Naomi, gave me when she finally understood why using the correct pronouns was so important. And she was explaining that in the early 1970s when she had recently gone through a divorce, Ms. Magazine came out. And all of a sudden she wasn't a Mrs. And she wasn't a miss and she was emphatic that people call her MS and just think of that, think of this is their, way of expressing who they are and they just want to be accepted.

[00:32:07] Jami Shapiro: Now that was a side tangent, which we like to call squirrel. So mom, you've been editing the book. And again, this book is really written more for people who lived their whole lives with undiagnosed ADHD. And I am not a doctor. I am a somebody who provides organizing services. I'm an ADHD coach and I am a level two, ADHD specialist with the Institute for Challenging Disorganization.

[00:32:32] Jami Shapiro: But I am not a doctor, and I'm not a therapist, so I always wanna make sure that I'm putting that into the message. But as you've been reading the book, what are the biggest. Insights that have come up for you in understanding your ADHD. And by the way, I wanna say one other thing. I said to my mom, I was listening to a podcast and they were talking about how older adult women who had ADHD might also have fibromyalgia and my migraine headaches.

[00:32:58] Jami Shapiro: And I picked up the phone and I said, mom, I have some good news for you. I don't think you have hoarding disorder. I think you have ADHD. And then the whole grandma has ADHD thing started, but my mom did end up seeing her therapist and her psychiatrist, and I think your general practitioner who all eventually confirmed it and it had been missed all of these years.

[00:33:22] Jami Shapiro: So I see it all the time, 75 to 80% of people who have ADHD don't realize they have it. But. So I've just given you the disclaimer. So mom, back to the book. I actually circled back. what have been your biggest takeaways of, as you're learning about ADHD? Through the research that I've done?

[00:33:43] Jami Shapiro: Well aside from the fact that I don't have hyperactivity disorder, as I said, my mind is always running. Always running. And every time I pick up something about, and especially Jami's book where I'm shown it shows you different things that are signs of ADHD or characteristics of what I hate to call a disorder because it stigmatizes it.

[00:34:13] Jami Shapiro: I agree. Okay. When I see something, I go, oh, that's me. Yep. I mean this, if I ever had any doubt. Yep. This is me. Well, what have been the biggest things that you're like, oh,

[00:34:23] Jami Shapiro: this makes sense. Can you think or is, am I putting you on your spot? Yes.

[00:34:27] Vicki: No, no. one of the biggest problems that I have had, and I'm 78 years old, almost 79, is waking up in the middle of the night.

[00:34:40] Vicki: Ruminating over things that I've said or done and cringe-worthy moments and they're still cringe-worthy. and I think about the people who were around me when I said them or did them, they probably don't remember. That's

[00:34:56] Jami Shapiro: exactly what I was gonna say. You are spending so much time worrying that they've moved on.

[00:35:00] Jami Shapiro: And it's funny, like when you see a group picture, whose picture do you look at?

[00:35:06] Vicki: When you're in it? Well, I look at mine first, right? Just, but I do look at everybody else. Okay.

[00:35:12] Jami Shapiro: But my point is like, when I would go to exercise class, I wasn't staring at what my neighbor was doing. I was watching myself.

[00:35:18] Jami Shapiro: Right? So if you are ruminating, and I think that's what we're understanding, that this is what we're doing, and breaking that cycle is really, really important. So there was something that I was gonna ask you, mom, that of course. it was there and then it was gone. Yeah. And I'm not having a senior moment.

[00:35:34] Jami Shapiro: I'm not a senior. I'm having an ADHD moment and I'm gonna forgive myself for that. Oh, this is what I was gonna say. All right. This is gonna sound a little bit snotty or snobby, but I'm gonna say it. I think people with ADHD are actually more brilliant than other people. I think we have these amazing brains and one of the things that I have noticed and this is actually from having managed somebody with ADHD, but also having it, is that we kind of cycle through so we can be like super productive, like getting a task done in time that would take other people forever and we knock it out and then we are shot and we need to like pull back.

[00:36:17] Jami Shapiro: We've just given everything we've got. And actually, I talk a lot about Tracy Otsuka. She's one of my favorite podcasters, and she's an author of ADHD for Smart Ass Women. And she says that she actually likes to hire people on her team who have ADHD and then put them in their zone of genius.

[00:36:34] Jami Shapiro: And I think that, when you see and you start to meet people with ADHD and we start to be more open about it you're going to find admirable traits that are just. Significantly better, for lack of a better word than you might find somebody that doesn't have our extra sparkle. I love an example that I was giving to my kids.

[00:36:53] Jami Shapiro: So we were walking to get some I don't know. we were walking in our neighborhood night at the time. all three kids living at home and I did not understand ADHD at this time. I was not looking into it. But I was describing our personality. 'cause all of my kids.

[00:37:08] Jami Shapiro: Have big personalities. And I was saying to them, how some people like vanilla ice cream people just like vanilla, right? I'm like, well, we're Ben and Jerry's fish food. Like we're just more, and if you don't like ice cream with a lot of flavor, then we're not for you. Right? And so that's sort of how I describe ADHD.

[00:37:27] Jami Shapiro: I think Ben and Jerry's fish food is so much better than vanilla. Right. What's your favorite ice cream? Mom? Ah.

[00:37:39] Vicki: I think chocolate chip. Okay. Chocolate chip. All right. So any other words that you want to Oh, oh, I'll just say this. This has been the best visit that I have had with my mother since my twenties. And, it, it's like so liberating to like realize that it. Didn't need to judge my mom or ridicule my mom or persecute my mom.

[00:38:05] Jami Shapiro: She just needed acceptance and I couldn't do it. and I also have said, I, it's not my job to fix her. It's not my responsibility. and you've acknowledged that you probably put too much on me,

[00:38:18] Vicki: right? Right. As a single parent, you do that, you use your child. In this case, I had only one, so I used her as my.

[00:38:29] Vicki: Partner to bounce things off of. And I never realized she was internalizing and hurting by what I was saying. I just thought I was bouncing ideas off of her and bouncing feelings. And I would never have heard her. And I have to say, Jami, this is the best visit we've ever had. I agree. Forget twenties, this is the best it's been.

[00:38:57] Vicki: Just my heart just sings it's corny, but it just sings when I see you and being around you. So this I said, no matter what it took, I mean it happens to be ADHD, but it gives us a common ground. It gives us an understanding of one another. I said I would've taken anything to be this close to my daughter again and 'cause we were close when she was in college.

[00:39:28] Vicki: She would call me during the TV shows to see what I thought. But this has been the best and if it's ADHD that has brought us together, it's finally an understanding for me of what's been wrong with me. And and I'm very grateful.

[00:39:46] Jami Shapiro: I hate to use the term wrong. I think it's misunderstood.

[00:39:49] Jami Shapiro: Okay. But wrong is not the right word. Okay. But it's the first time that I can be in my mom's place and I am not crawling out of my skin. I'm laughing. Right. And so if you have a strange relationship with an adult child or someone in your family and ADHD is going on for you take some time to learn about it and you'll understand how it's impacted that relationship.

[00:40:11] Jami Shapiro: Thank you so much for tuning in and visiting with my mom and all her stuff. and really I hope this shows you that you really can make the rest of your life the best of your life. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks, mom. You're welcome. It's a pleasure.

[00:40:27] Jami Shapiro: So we're gonna run outta battery, so it's the Perfect. ADHD Way to end it.

 

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