Grandma Has ADHD

Episode 56 - This Explains So Much: Jami Shapiro & Charna Kinneberg on ADHD, Dyslexia, and Self-Acceptance

• Jami Shapiro • Episode 56

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What if finally understanding your brain didn’t mean changing who you are—but celebrating how you’re wired?

In this heartfelt episode of Grandma Has ADHD, host Jami Shapiro chats with Charna Kinneberg, one of the founding members of the National Association of Senior Move Managers (NASMM) and a true pioneer in the move management industry.

Charna opens up about growing up dyslexic and undiagnosed with ADHD—always feeling “different,” being called an underachiever despite a high IQ, and learning to navigate life without ever knowing why some things felt harder. Through Jami’s new book This Explains So Much, Charna saw herself reflected for the first time and found healing, validation, and self-acceptance.

Together, Jami and Charna explore the overlapping experiences of ADHD and dyslexia, the hidden challenges of growing up before anyone talked about neurodiversity, and how both women turned those struggles into strengths. They also dive into the emotional side of clutter, storage, and “right-sizing,” sharing powerful lessons from decades helping seniors and families transition with dignity and grace.

If you’ve ever felt “less than,” struggled to stay organized, or wondered why your brain seems to work differently, this episode will leave you feeling seen, understood, and proud of who you are—exactly as you are.

Thank you for joining us for this episode of Grandma Has ADHD! We hope Jami's journey and insights into ADHD shed light on the unique challenges faced by older adults. Stay tuned for more episodes where we’ll explore helpful resources, share personal stories, and provide guidance for those navigating ADHD. Don’t forget to subscribe and share this podcast with friends who might benefit. Remember, Make the rest of your life the best of your life.

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[00:00:00] Have you ever thought, is this just me? When struggling to stay organized, start tasks, or manage time, for those of us over 50, these challenges might not be just aging. They could be ADHD hiding in plain sight for decades. I'm Jami Shapiro, host of Grandma has ADHD, and I'm building a community where your experiences matter.

Whether you are diagnosed, questioning or simply curious. You are not alone. Our Facebook group is filled with vibrant understanding. People over 50 who share their stories, strategies, and yes, even their struggles with plenty of laughter along the way. Ready to find your [00:01:00] people. Join our growing grandma has ADHD Facebook community.

Please like and subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and share it with someone who might need to hear. They're not alone because ADHD doesn't have an age limit and neither does understanding yourself better. Together, we're changing the conversation about ADHD after 50 come be part of the story.

Jami Shapiro: Hi, and welcome to a really special edition of Grandma Has ADHD. This is going to be the very first episode that I drop, so to speak, after my new book, and I'm gonna plug it. This explains so much came out. Just this week and I was having a conversation with my good friend, Charna kinneberg, who is, who is one of the founders of NASMM.

That's the National Association of Senior Move Managers. And if you've been listening to [00:02:00] my podcast, you know that I am a big advocate of NASMM and means, and that's how I got into this whole ADHD journey. But she texted me to tell me that she was almost in tears from reading the book, and that so much of what I had shared had resonated with her.

And I said, Charna, I, I wasn't supposed to, I was gonna do my own episode on Tuesday when I, I dropped the episodes on Tuesday. But I would love to interview you about your reaction to the book. And of course, I'll let you share what it is that you do. But, but s Shana, you graciously agreed. And so here she is.

But I did, as I said, I indicated she was one of the founders of the industry that I am in, which speaks very commonly to ADHD and, and how we see when something is missing and we go in and we figure out what, what needs to happen. So anyway, I, that's just a very long-winded introduction, but hi Charna.

Charna kinneberg: Hey Jami, how are you? Good, how are you? I'm doing great, and for full disclosure, I've gotten about third to half of the way through the book and I love it. Okay. It just, I'm a slow reader. I'm a dyslexic and I'm a slow reader and. It is great. [00:03:00] And I will finish the book, which is always me. 

Jami Shapiro: Yeah, yeah. You know, my cousin actually messaged me and she said the same thing.

She said, I never read, and I'm halfway through the book, she said, but if I put it down, I'm afraid I, I will lose it and I won't, I won't pick it up again. But I, I've been surprised at how many people, 'cause I was really scared to kind of put it all out there and say, this is how I live. Maybe other people aren't gonna feel the way that I do, but I've been blown away by people like you that are you just, and the dyslexic is one of the, have you gone through the this is an mm-hmm.

Okay. It's on there. It's on there. 

Charna kinneberg: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the, is the business about being called dumb when you're a kid and an underachiever and all this other kind of stuff, because all the people in my, in my family have tested over 130 for IQ. I see the accomplishments that I've done and know I'm not, I didn't get the grades that my brother and sister got who could sit still long enough for that stuff.

And a lot of what you talk [00:04:00] about in your book is me. Mm-hmm. It's like, oh my 

Jami Shapiro: god. Yeah. That's me. I love that. I think, I think I didn't, I wasn't anticipating or, or really thinking when this all started, that you know, we do, we have whole generations of women. Again, I'm sure there are men too, but I'm really gearing this, you know, towards women that have had all of the challenges that these kids now have, but nobody had a label for it.

And we just suffered in silence thinking it was just us and even. Releasing the book. I'm like, oh, maybe there aren't enough people. You know? It, it's a very, it's a very scary thing, first of all, to put yourself into the world. And then to hear that other people could identify with what you've just said, it, it's giving us a freedom.

So, go 

Charna kinneberg: ahead. I didn't even know I was dyslexic until, oh, I don't know when. I was probably in my early thirties. 

Jami Shapiro: Wow. Wow. 

Charna kinneberg: Yeah. Somebody on a nursing floor caught it and said, well, your reason, you're having trouble. You can add things up in columns like that, but the reason you're having trouble getting the numbers right in the right order is because you're dyslexic.

Oh, you mean it's not just about D's and B's being backwards? [00:05:00] No. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So the right. The insights that I've gotten from that and from your book are amazing. 

Jami Shapiro: That's awesome. Okay, so take us back. Take us back. I mean, of course, I'm gonna let you talk about where you are present day, but I wanna hear about, and by the way, is it Charna?

Or Charna? Yeah, it's 

Charna kinneberg: Charna. 

Jami Shapiro: I got it right. Yay. Yeah. Okay, so tell me about Little Charna. Take me back to childhood. 

Charna kinneberg: Youngest kid, 

Jami Shapiro: Uhhuh of how many of three. Okay. 

Charna kinneberg: My sister was the oldest. Incredibly bright. Did not do a whole lot with it. My brother was, the middle child, became a surgeon, and was, was he could operate, he was ambidextrous.

He could operate right or left. Wow. Both of those two people were, both of them could get excellent grades in school and I was struggling. Mm-hmm. And I had these ideas of something I wanted to do. Like read the, read the encyclopedia. Yeah. The, I would, I am the, in the era of encyclopedias. I was gonna read that one summer.

It didn't happen. I looked through a few pages, but no I was of the error that if you were [00:06:00] inside, you were in, you were sick. Mm-hmm. And unless we were running a fever or bleeding on the carpet, we weren't deemed as sick. So we were outside a lot and a lot of physical play. I did not have fun with Dick and Jane when I was growing up.

If you remember those primary readers? The heck 

Jami Shapiro: was, I think they were a little before me, but I know them. Yeah. See Dick and Jane, TC Spot, right? Yeah. 

Charna kinneberg: Yeah. Uhhuh couldn't read to save my life. Mm-hmm. And if a test was counting, I would screw it up, but if it didn't matter, I got incredible grades. I'm a math person.

Test anxiety. Yeah. I'm a math person, so I remember in high school. One of my math teachers would explain a concept once to me, and then she would take half the class and I'd take the other half the class and go teach them. Hmm. So I had different areas of expertise, which retrospectively makes sense, but at the meantime doesn't, again, couldn't read in high [00:07:00] school, I remember being told to read something and it just didn't happen.

It was way too difficult for me. Mm-hmm. Yeah, 

Jami Shapiro: I, I think I, 40% of people with dyslexia have ADHD or vice versa. I don't know where the percentages fall, but I don't know if you noticed that. I got out my pen and paper, but you said test anxiety uhhuh and I forgot that's a thing. So I keep this running list of, that's an ADHD thing.

That's what kind of why you called me and so I just added test anxiety to the list. Okay, so you struggled reading and, and that's a separate, I do wanna mention that's a very separate challenge, and I have had. Jeff Copper, who has an MBA and came on the podcast and he shared with me, you know, he was also diagnosed with dyslexia in, I think it was high school, and he actually said that he found the challenges of dyslexia to be more difficult than the challenges of ADHD.

So I am not dyslexic. I have a lot of other challenges. That's just not one of them. So, but I do wanna acknowledge that. For you that, you know, I know that it would be, I would imagine that it would be really hard to not know why you're not reading, but you know, clearly intelligent, which is also an A DH ADHD experience, [00:08:00] right?

Charna kinneberg: Yeah, 

Jami Shapiro: yeah. 

Charna kinneberg: So the interesting thing is with the, with the issues that I contend with, you had to find adaptive ways of dealing with them because there were no. IEPs back when I was in, in elementary school and, and high school and any of the, any of the schooling I had. So, interestingly enough, I ended up getting into the University of Pennsylvania.

Mm-hmm. And I made the National Honors Society. I don't know how I made these things. There's absolutely no reason in my mind, given what I was dealt to have done this. But I was involved with a lot of activities in school, and I guess that got me into Penn, which is an Ivy League. Yeah. Go you. Yeah, I was in the, and you know, I was in the school of nursing and I jokingly say at the time there were five men for every woman at Penn.

Mm-hmm. And so I majored in dating. I love it. It's fun. Yeah. 

Jami Shapiro: Yeah. 

Charna kinneberg: Yeah. But again, that was a challenge because me sitting down and studying. [00:09:00] It was like the butterfly flying across, oh, let me go see the butterfly squirrel. Like we call that squirrel. Yeah, squirrel. Yeah. Have you, have you gotten that far in the book yet?

Yes, I have. And it made me laugh because I, I drive through Delaware often and I saw a sign recently that said, don't, don't distract, don't drive. Distract squirrel. I was laughing at that. 

Jami Shapiro: It's a real thing. Charna. Yeah. Okay. So you're also not uncommon to have a very accomplished person with ADHD and I, I have found two camps and you know, I stop, just talk about that in the book.

One is the overachiever who's constantly going, doesn't stop to pause and savor what they've done. Goes on to the next thing. I think partly because we have a hard time sitting still, we have to be working towards the next thing. But for me, I also think that there was partly that imposter syndrome where if I had one more certification, then it would prove that I was, and also I, although I don't have dyslexia, I did struggle feeling that I wasn't intelligent and I couldn't really Oh yeah.

[00:10:00] Yeah. Oh yeah. So, so there is this, you know, I'm not as smart as everybody else, which, okay. 

Charna kinneberg: Absolutely. I still look at it and compare what I do with what my boss does and 'cause now I have a boss, which is actually quite relieving. But I compare my knowledge to that, to what she does. We have different types of expertise.

Another thing that came up too is her expertise. It's, it's more corporate and she develops new product lines, and I'm the squirrel that says, oh, I've got another idea. Oh, I have another idea. Until I got to this point in my life. Those ideas to me were detrimental. And now, i've got a situation where I'm working and my crazy ideas are actually things that are valuable, and I've never had that before.

So what a relief that I could come up with an idea and somebody doesn't look at me like I'm crazy. They, they're able to sort out the gems in these ideas and take advantage of [00:11:00] 'em. So to me, that's absolute mo. That's gold. Mines. 

Jami Shapiro: Sure. You know, they have in the entrepreneur group that I was in entrepreneur organization, I was in the accelerator for the people that weren't making a million dollars.

' cause hopefully I will one day. But they have, they say that they're two different leaders in an organization. There's the visionary, which I think tends to be the people with ADHD. We have the grand ideas. We see things that people don't see, but we need that integrator. We need that person that's gonna sort through those ideas and say, you know, listen's good because.

I'm sure you have the shiny object syndrome where you're like the next thing and then the next thing. Right? So it's like what? Well, interestingly 

Charna kinneberg: enough, Joyce is always try, is always chasing after the next break coin and she can put things together and create another division. And I'm seeing, I step back and I'm, I see the issues associated with getting it done and can take that and present it in such a way that we get attention.

So whether it's another kind of presentation. I'm doing one in a few weeks [00:12:00] about storage. 

Jami Shapiro: Mm-hmm. Well, 

Charna kinneberg: that's another view of downsizing 

Jami Shapiro: of Sure. 

Charna kinneberg: But when I talked to the person that I'm doing this presentation for, he said, I never thought about talking about storage. Nobody's ever brought that up.

It's a huge issue. It's a $44.3 billion issue in this country. And it's because we don't downsize. Because we don't, you know what, 

Jami Shapiro: okay. That's, that is a tangent that I want us to go down because I definitely wanna honor the work that we both do. Mm-hmm. And but I also wanna share with you something that I learned about dyslexia and that is that the majority of.

I'm not gonna, I'm gonna mess up the numbers, but a lot of multimillionaires mm-hmm. Are dyslexic because they recognize pattern, they recognize patterns in the market, they recognize patterns and things. So that could actually be your dyslexia working for you, by the way, where you can see. But let's talk about storage.

' cause I think that's a really important conversation because I know with ADHD and a lot of the clients that I see, and I'm sure you've seen over the years, is. A lot of stuff and then [00:13:00] they become overwhelmed with their stuff and then it's just a deferred decision. When that stuff goes into storage or a family member dies, family's not ready to deal with it, and then it just goes to storage.

I heard the statistic, one out of every 10 people rents offsite storage. I'd love to hear what, since you're working on the presentation, share like go. 

Charna kinneberg: Yeah, I heard similar. It was like one out of 11 and that's. Just offsite storage as far as these self-storage things, but doesn't include the pods, doesn't include storing in your neighbor's basement or your daughter's basement.

And also doesn't include storage that you get with movers. Mm-hmm. So that's 44.3. I bet it's more like 44.3 billion. My estimate, it's probably closer to someplace like 50 billion. 

Jami Shapiro: Okay. Well, before you give all of this wonderful knowledge to our, our, our listeners, I would love for you to put a plug in for your the company that you work for.

And just so everyone is listening Charna and I are both members of the same organization. I'm in San Diego. I own Silver Linings Transitions. [00:14:00] And I have to say, Charna was one of the women that I met when I joined the industry 12 years ago. And I, she was like, she was like the head, the head cher, the, in like one of the, the big people.

And I remember being kind of like, remember when you're in school and you're little and you see the big, like the big seniors in high school? Oh yeah. And you're like, intimidated be, and then like, here I am, now we're friends. So I feel like I've made it. 

Charna kinneberg: I feel like I've made it too. You're amazing. 

Jami Shapiro: Aw, thank you.

But anyway, so yeah, so I just shared silver linings. Does senior move management storage garages, home organizing in San Diego and share what it is that you do with Moyer and I don't know the correct Moyer ma move. So you, you, you go, well, let's just 

Charna kinneberg: say Moyer 'cause we're in the process of rebranding to just Moyer.

The division I work with is Moyer Move Management. 

Jami Shapiro: Mm-hmm. 

Charna kinneberg: We also have a moving company. The moving company's been around since 1969. It's the third generation, amazing guys. They're incredible guys that run and own this organization. The move management division was started by a lady that used to work with transitional assistance and design, and [00:15:00] they were acquired by way and in the process of way downsizing.

She was let go and went to work for the Moyers that was in a week before the pandemic, 

Jami Shapiro: the 

Charna kinneberg: pandemic hit and they said, just stay the course. It'll be fine. She is truly a builder and we went from nothing in 2020 to now we have over. 60 people, between 60 and 70 people. In our move management division, we just won top Workplace in the Baltimore Sun as well as the Washington Post.

Wow. A really good company. And our movers are independent. And this year they won independent mover of the year from the American Truckers Association. Now, what I do, I, I kind of describe my job description is I work for a lady named Joy Joyce Nohow. She's our president. I'll do anything Joyce wants me to do.

I feel like getting into, that's my job description and she kind of agrees with that. 

Jami Shapiro: Nice. That sounds perfect for an A DH ADHD brain, right? 

Charna kinneberg: Hey, it works for [00:16:00] me. So I do a lot of presentations. I do sales calls sometimes with the, the salespeople. I sometimes pick up the odds and ends here and there. There's projects that I get involved with mainly I do a lot of business development.

Jami Shapiro: Okay, so I wanna take a step back. 'cause some people, this might be the first time they're, they're tuning into the grandma has ADHD podcast. Let me just briefly tell those of you who are listening, what it is that we do as senior and specialty move managers. So the industry started helping seniors when they were relocating from a home that they have ma maybe been in for many, many years, or they needed to go through their belongings.

Quote, use the word downsize. Now we're using the word right size because the downsize sort of has a negative connotation, right? Size is really more about what we're doing, but it's helping people go through the process of going through a lifetime of belongings, pairing them down, and then handling all of the logistics of the move.

And every member of NASMM is a member of a national association. Actually more than national 'cause we're in Canada and other countries, but we have a governing board. We have a code of ethics, [00:17:00] which I know you serve on that, the code of ethics. I do. And you know, people, you know, I've, and I've worked with movers before by the way.

And I'm not just talking about as a move manager, but I've, you know, been in the person that had a manage a mover, do the bait and switch, and then you have no recourse. And what's really great about NASMM is that, you know, and we very rarely get complaints, but if there is a complaint against a member of NASMM, it's addressed.

You know, you could lose your standing as a NASMM member. And, but what's great about it is that majority of us. I mean, really like 99% of us we're really good people with a lot of integrity. We want that layer layer of accountability. But so we exist, you know, in other places running differently as Charna said hers is, has a moving attachment to it.

My company partners with movers who we vet and we oversee them, but we don't have that part. So we all run a little bit differently, but all of us pretty much do the same thing, and that's making the process of moving. A lot easier. And one of the things that's so great about my work with ADHD is that one of the biggest challenges that we have in ADHD is with executive [00:18:00] functioning, which is, you know, how do you prioritize, how do you take on big tasks?

How do you, you know, schedule things? Where do you begin? So that's just part of executive functioning. So, and also disorganization and clutter. So you can see we're working with a move management company and, and in my company's case, I don't know about you guys. We do home organizing as well. We 

Charna kinneberg: do, yeah.

We do a lot of that. 

Jami Shapiro: Yeah. So having have, knowing that this is, you know, people who need our services 'cause it's just not the way their brains work. So I, I wanted to put that plug in and then we're going to pause. We're gonna come back, you're gonna tell us a little bit about storage and what people can do if they are, you know, looking at a lot of storage, kind of what you're sharing with your audience.

But I always like to ask the button question and I know you've listened to the podcast before and that is I always ask people if they could press a button and they never had ADHD and they will never have it. It's just goes away. Poof. Would you press the button? So Charna, we're gonna leave everybody hanging with that message.

And just so. I don't forget, if you haven't already, I would love for you to buy the book. This explains so much. It is available on [00:19:00] Amazon. You could put my name, Jami Shapiro. I think it's coming up now with just this explains so much, but also I'm going to be starting a online downsizing meets accountability in in the spring.

But prior to that, we're gonna have a virtual book club on October 26th. So anybody that that purchases the book is going to be able to participate in the virtual book club or, yes. Where they also get to meet my mom who helped me write the book. So I'm just gonna put that plug in. We're gonna take a pause and now Charna, we're gonna come back.

You're gonna answer the button question.

 

Hey there. Grandma has ADHD listeners. I'm your host, Jami Shapiro. And do I have some exciting news? My book, this explains so much understanding. Undiagnosed, ADHD is now available on Amazon. My mom, Vicki and I wrote this together. She's the original [00:20:00] grandma who inspired this whole journey. I'm calling this the Perfect is the Enemy of Den version.

If I waited until it was perfect, you'd never be holding it in your hands. This book is for us, those of us who spent our whole lives feeling like we were too much or never quite enough. Inside, you'll find why. You've always felt different. ADHD traits, you didn't even know were ADHD traits. How to declutter without the shame spiral, and so much more about thriving with ADHD after 50.

Here is the exciting part. Everyone who purchases the book gets free access to a virtual book club that my mom and I are hosting. So mark your calendars for Sunday, October 26th at 3:30 PM Pacific, 6:30 PM Eastern. We are going to share stories, laugh about our ADHD moments and create that safe [00:21:00] space.

Where you can finally take off that girdle when you read the book, you'll know what I mean? And just be yourself. Here's what to do. Head to Amazon's search. This explains so much. Jamie Shapiro. Grab your copy, paperback or ebook and visit grandma has h adhd.com to take the a h ADHD quiz and get your book club registration link.

Understanding your ADHD isn't adding to your plate. It's finally understanding why your plate has always felt so full. I cannot wait to see you at the book club and hear your stories, and if the book resonates, please leave an Amazon review as well as for this podcast to help other women find their light bulb moments.

Thank you for being part of this community. This book exists because of all of you.

Ever wondered why helping a loved one declutter feels [00:22:00] like speaking different languages? I did, especially with my mom. It wasn't until I founded Silver Linings Transitions helping San Diego seniors organize and move for over a decade that I discovered why we all experienced clutter differently. And for those of us with ADHD, it's a whole other world.

If you are listening in the San Diego area and feeling stuck with moving. Paperwork, photos or home organization. Our team at Silver Linings Transitions gets it. We understand ADHD's unique challenges and we won't just help you get organized. We'll create sustainable systems that. Finally stick Schedule a consultation with our team today at 7 6 0 5 2 2 1 6 2 4.

That's 7 6 0 5 2 2 1 6 2 4 or find [00:23:00] us@silverliningstransitions.com.

 

Jami Shapiro: So we are back with Charna. kinneberg from Moyer because that's what we're calling it right now and in the Maryland area. And I asked before we left for the break, Charna, would you press the button and not have ADHD? 

Charna kinneberg: No. 

Jami Shapiro: No. 

Charna kinneberg: You would not 

Jami Shapiro: press the button. 

Charna kinneberg: I wouldn't press the button. I, there are disadvantages and there are advantages and at this point in my life there, I like the way my brain works.

It sounds kind of weird, but I really, no, I like, it doesn't, how crazy. It's doesn't. Me too. And I really like whether it's ADHD causing it or dyslexia or a combination of both. I really like the creativity that I can bring to situations. 

Jami Shapiro: Mm-hmm. And then 

Charna kinneberg: what, of course, you describe it in the book, it's like a, you're, I'm scattered all over the place until I get to something I really wanna do and then.

You may as well rip a [00:24:00] bone away from a dog. It's absolutely impossible. Yes. And I think some of the things, when I was growing up, I remember working at 11 to seven and being bored and came up with a pattern of a sweater that was a very intricate pattern for knitting of a fisherman's sweater for a niece of mine, because there were no patterns that were this big.

Ah. So I created it Uhhuh. That's that's part of, I think. Absolutely what DADH ADHD does. Mm-hmm. Because then I was like a dog with a bone. 

Jami Shapiro: Mm-hmm. 

Charna kinneberg: I wasn't distracted 'cause I was bored, so. Right. It worked out. 

Jami Shapiro: You, you and I, we got on the tangent of the WOOWOO story when I had shared with you, and I say this, you know, in the book that I feel that we were born with these brains for a reason.

Mm-hmm. You know, that we have something to contribute and that these brains allow us, once we figure out what it is. To contribute. And one of the reasons that I am so passionate about doing this work with older adults is there are so many people in our society that think it doesn't matter. Why does it matter that, you know, an older adult discovers that they have ADHD, they've been functioning this [00:25:00] way for this many years.

And you know, and I say in every episode, and I will probably say it in every episode, is at what point in life do you wanna stop learning? Do you wanna cease to matter? Do you know, do you wanna stop growing? And so, you know, that is. So, so ba basically finding your purpose and figuring out what you're good at there is never point, a point that you, you should stop pursuing that.

That was sort of where I was going with that. 

Charna kinneberg: So my, from my perspective too, it's given me the opportunity to forgive myself for what I saw for character defects. 

Jami Shapiro: Mm-hmm. And it's not 

Charna kinneberg: a character defect, it's a def it's, and it's not even a design defect. Mm-hmm. It's an alternate universe that I happen to live in.

Jami Shapiro: It's a, it's a different brain wiring. But you know, I, I say in the book that, you know, we were likely the, the cavemen who were scoping the environment to make sure that it was safe and on heightened alert. And so we, you know, there's a book called A Hunter in a Farmer's World. You know, we are these heightened alert state and then you wanna put us to sit and do agriculture or assembly line.

Our brains are too much for that. So you had shared, 'cause I had, I always, when I [00:26:00] pause the, the conversation and in addition to giving you a few words to just help support the podcast, I always ask the guest, are you happy with the direction? And I ask Charna, did she wanna go down the storage? Lane, sorry.

Sometimes we can't come up with words. You're getting this in real life. And Charna said no, she actually wanted to share a story about a client that she had, that she is, you know, fairly certain. And by the way, we cannot diagnose someone with ADHD. I'm very clear on that. But you know, it's kind of like when you, when you know, you know, you, you can just tell.

But, but if you do suspect ADHD and you want to take medication, which I'm an advocate for, if, if you can do that, you do need to see a healthcare professional. Who understands ADHD in older adults because PS that's another problem. But, alright, so share, share Charna what you were gonna share. 

Charna kinneberg: Well, what I will say is working with her was like being in a room full of squirrels left on the loose, trying to find the nuts to hide someplace for winter.

So if you can imagine a room full of squirrels running around like crazy people, that's what was going on. We're trying to focus [00:27:00] this woman on downsizing and having an organized environment, and she saw value in everything she owned, which is something you and I deal with all the time. It got to the point I was focused, I was on that.

I've got a task to accomplish and I need to get it done, and the squirrels are driving me crazy. 

Jami Shapiro: Mm-hmm. 

Charna kinneberg: I brought a team lead in who actually I knew I wasn't the right person to deal with this lady 'cause it was like my ADHD. My way of dealing with the world was making things worse because I was on a mission to organize and go down one.

Path, which she wanted to go down, but was incapable of going down. So we needed another kind of person to get in there and work with her, which I brought somebody in and was amazed at how well they worked together. And eventually we got the job to the point that she could move. Martha, never, Martha Stewart, never lived in her home, never will live in her own.

[00:28:00] Oh, and despite what her husband wanted, what her daughter wanted, and actually what she wanted, Martha Stewart won't live there. Because she doesn't have the ability to let go of things and to make it better. 

Jami Shapiro: Mm. And I 

Charna kinneberg: didn't have the ability to be able to get her even to the point that she was at. So it was a real interesting experience.

And again, we learned things, we learned things from a lot of our clients, and that was one, it was like yeah, this is not me. I can't help this woman, but I can get somebody else in that's more appropriate to help her. 

Jami Shapiro: Right. So that's one of the strengths of ADHD is that we can really read people, we can sense energy and we can, you know, match the right person to the task.

And that's definitely a, a strength of ADHD and I, I don't know about you, but this is me. If I'm like sending a, a text message in the morning, say to my team, I just wanna send a message that I wanna get out. 'cause I don't wanna like make happy talk and, hi, how are you today? Did you have a nice weekend?

I'm like, okay, did you get this done right? And that can be, yeah. Yes. Right? Yes, it could be married. Off putting in abrupt, but we are like, to your point, if I want to get something done and accomplish it, [00:29:00] this is what my agenda is. And that can make it really difficult if we're working with somebody who isn't aligned with us in that way.

And so finding that compassionate, and I have the same thing. I have people on my team who we have the client whisper, like we know we have one that if we're gonna have a really difficult client or one that's gonna have a lot of emotional issues, we bring in Joanne. So anybody who's had Joanne, you, that might be a.

You know a thing, but we really try to align the right patient personality with the person and And go with their pace. 

Charna kinneberg: Absolutely. And it's funny you say that thing about skipping the niceties and getting directly to the point, I have to pull myself back all the time and remember to say. I hope you had a good weekend.

I hope you got a good night's sleep. It's nice to talk with you. It's like, can I get to the point now, 

Jami Shapiro: Uhhuh, and that's, that's actually masking anytime that we don't behave in the way that is authentic to who we are. We are, we are kind of holding it together. And I think that was a big part of, you know, the book for me [00:30:00] was kind of pulling back the curtain and letting you say, Hey, this is, this is what's going on for me.

Now, that's not to say that I, I shouldn't be nice and say good morning, and, but it's, but it's not an easy, it doesn't come naturally for me. 

Charna kinneberg: No. It's a thought. It's a, it's, it's absolutely a thought. And in fact, the, the best way I come up with ideas, if I'm stuck on something, I go take a walk. 

Jami Shapiro: Mm-hmm. And 

Charna kinneberg: it seems me walking.

My brain to go on idle enough to come up with a solution. I walk into the house after a walk and my husband says what did I do wrong? What do we what now? It's 'cause I've generally come up with ideas on walks. Yeah. We 

Jami Shapiro: need to pause. We need to pause away from things and give ourselves that distance, or I call them my shower epiphanies or yoga when I need to think.

So in typical ADHD fashion, I have overscheduled myself. Charna and I were supposed to get on at 10 o'clock my time. And then we had, delays due to technical issues. And of course, I scheduled an appointment with my dog groomer, and I've been very, very proud of the fact that Benji has kept quiet. I, I front loaded the snacks.

So, Charna, before I [00:31:00] wrap up, I want people to be able to get in touch with you and I want you to share any last bit of words of wisdom to my audience, who I really feel are people who are coming to this. ADHD conversation, obviously later in life after the age of 50. And just like you were, like, I, I kind of like making peace with, with their lives.

So could both tell us how we can find you and or, or Moyer. 

Charna kinneberg: My email address, although it's long, it's easy. It's Charna, C-H-A-R-N a@moyermovemanagement.com. And Moyer is M-O-Y-E-R. Okay. So that takes, and hopefully everybody else is a better speller than I am, but 

Jami Shapiro: Okay. And then what are your, what are your parting words for the people that are listening to this podcast?

Charna kinneberg: Read the book. Ah, thank you. I did not pay her for that, but no, in all serious, it's a great 

book. The other thing is once you discover what you are, embrace it. Forgive yourself, acknowledge it. Don't try to fight it. Why? Try to change yourself. I've went [00:32:00] a long time struggling with the fact that I was less than, and I'm not less than.

I'm exactly the way I'm supposed to be, and I have so much to offer the world. Get there. Acknowledge it. Embrace it, and keep it. 

Jami Shapiro: I could not have said it better. That is exactly what I am trying to do, so. I'm just gonna let you be the last word. Thank you. Thank you for being here, Charna. Thank you for being my friend.

Thank you for being a founding member of NASMM. The work that we do is so helpful to seniors, to their families, to people who would rather take a vacation than take days off of work to make a move because. Moving is one of life's biggest stressors and we absolutely, we make that pleasurable. So thanks so much for being on the podcast and I hope that for those of you who listened, you learn something.

And I probably have s Charna back on 'cause she, she just has so much to say. So when you finish the book, s Charna, there's your, there's your little reward for finishing. I'm gonna have you back on 

Charna kinneberg: and we'll, we'll go through 

Jami Shapiro: it 

Charna kinneberg: after NASMM. You bet. 

Jami Shapiro: Alright. Okay. We have a conference coming up. Okay. Take care everybody.

Thanks for listening. 

Charna kinneberg: Bye. 

Jami Shapiro: Bye.

[00:33:00] The opinions expressed on Grandma has ADHD podcast are those of our guests and hosts and are intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. This podcast does not provide medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The content discussed in this episode is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

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