Grandma Has ADHD

Episode 67 - Stop Doing Life on Hard Mode: The Truth About High-Functioning ADHD

• Jami Shapiro • Episode 67

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What if your lifelong “drive,” perfectionism, and success were actually camouflage for undiagnosed ADHD?

In this validating episode, Jami sits down with Dr. Eliza Barach — cognitive psychologist, ADHD coach, and proud ADHDer — to talk about what ADHD really looks like in high-performing women, especially those diagnosed later in life.

Together, they explore why so many bright, capable adults get missed for decades, the emotional rollercoaster of finally understanding your brain, and how learning to work with ADHD (instead of fighting it) can change everything — motivation, self-worth, productivity, parenting, relationships, and life after 50.

You’ll also hear candid stories about emotional dysregulation, growing up with an ADHD parent, marriage and ADHD, resilience, impulsive decisions that actually changed life for the better, and how to realistically plan when you’ve got an optimist, pessimist, and realist all living in your head.

If you’ve ever felt like you “shouldn’t” struggle because you’re successful… this episode will feel like a deep exhale.

Disclaimer: This episode is for education and support only and does not replace professional medical or mental health care. Always consult a qualified professional regarding diagnosis, treatment, or medical concerns.

Resources & Links Mentioned:

Thank you for joining us for this episode of Grandma Has ADHD! We hope Jami's journey and insights into ADHD shed light on the unique challenges faced by older adults. Stay tuned for more episodes where we’ll explore helpful resources, share personal stories, and provide guidance for those navigating ADHD. Don’t forget to subscribe and share this podcast with friends who might benefit. Remember, Make the rest of your life the best of your life.

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Grandma Has ADHD

[00:00:00] Have you ever thought, is this just me? When struggling to stay organized, start tasks, or manage time, for those of us over 50, these challenges might not be just aging. They could be ADHD hiding in plain sight for decades. I'm Jami Shapiro, host of Grandma has ADHD, and I'm building a community where your experiences matter.

[00:00:40] Whether you are diagnosed, questioning or simply curious. You are not alone. Our Facebook group is filled with vibrant understanding. People over 50 who share their stories, strategies, and yes, even their struggles with plenty of laughter along the way. Ready to find your [00:01:00] people. Join our growing grandma has ADHD Facebook community.

[00:01:04] Please like and subscribe to the podcast wherever you listen and share it with someone who might need to hear. They're not alone because ADHD doesn't have an age limit and neither does understanding yourself better. Together, we're changing the conversation about ADHD after 50 come be part of the story.

[00:01:25] Jami Shapiro: Today I am excited to introduce Dr. Eliza Barach, a cognitive psychologist and ADHD coach who specializes in working with high performing adults. Dr. Barach's Clients are driven, creative, and accomplished, yet many have spent decades puzzled by why. Motivation follow through. Emotional regulation can feel so unpredictable.

[00:01:51] What makes her work especially compelling is that many of the adults she supports were overlooked for ADHD diagnosis. Earlier in life. Their [00:02:00] intelligence, adaptability, or perfectionism became incredibly effective. Camouflage masking the struggles beneath their success. Dr. Barach is passionate about exploring this fascinating intersection, how ADHD can hide behind achievement and what transformation looks.

[00:02:16] Like when people finally understand their brains and learn to work with them instead of against them, her approach helps high achievers stop fighting themselves and start leveraging their unique. Neurological wiring and I'm so excited to talk to what should I call you, Eliza Barach. Dr. Barach, just, Eliza is fine.

[00:02:37] Thanks Eliza. And I should have asked you, so just for, for, for the guests when you're listening, I really go pretty much right into the interview because I like it to be a very ADHD spontaneous conversation. So I didn't even remember to ask Eliza how to pronounce her name, so I hope I didn't butcher it.

[00:02:56] You're totally fine. It's bash. it's tricky. [00:03:00] Well, Dr. Eliza Barach welcome and how I connected with Eliza is, as I've shared in some of the earlier episodes, we were both tad talk presenters, which is a TED talk, but half the length for our ADHD brains. And she presented on a topic that I cannot wait to explore.

[00:03:20] That's. How we realistically plan with ADHD when you have the optimist, the pessimist and the realist. And the only other thing I'll say, 'cause you know I'm gonna talk a lot, is that I do always ask my guests, if they have ADHD, and if they have ADHD, my expectation is that they're going to be open about it, because that's part of my why is destigmatizing ADHD.

[00:03:43] And she did say that I could share. and she also has a mother with ADHD, who is a grandma. So a lot. I'm gonna take a pause. Okay, so I paused for a second 'cause there was a banging, but Eliza said that was her one-year-old. And you [00:04:00] know, we're keeping it real on this podcast. And I don't know if you've ever heard my podcast, but I have a dog, Benji that every time I'm in my podcast area he will growl and bark at me.

[00:04:10] and you know, there's nothing I can do. So anyway, welcome Eliza. Thank you for your patience with all of that. 

[00:04:17] Eliza Barach: Yeah, thank you so much for having me. I mean, before my little one my two dogs always would bark when I was on coaching calls. They're still with us. You might hear them as well.

[00:04:27] So in addition to a little one that might yell, I've got two dogs that might chime 

[00:04:32] Jami Shapiro: Great. Okay. So I always wanna hear your ADHD story because obviously you work professionally in the ADHD space, but you also have ADHD. So tell me how all of that came into play. 

[00:04:45] Eliza Barach: Yeah. So I was diagnosed early for a woman at 17.

[00:04:50] Mm-hmm. And you know, I just, I always knew even when I was younger that I was a little different, you know, big thinkerI got my chair taken from me [00:05:00] because I wouldn't sit down. So all the signs were there. And then 17 came, which is, a crazy time for, girls and I was diagnosed.

[00:05:08] And then, you know, I didn't really think anything of it. I just kind of moved on It wasn't until I was in graduate school that I really started to take that seriously, like what it actually meant to have ADHD and what it actually looked like. And then that also really influenced my pursuit of psychology in graduate school.

[00:05:30] So. When I started graduate school, I always knew I wanted to study ADHD even if I wasn't studying it quite yet. My work was very much focused on understanding how the brain works, but like. A neurotypical brain. And so my hope was that I'd be able to take what we know about the neurotypical brain and see how it was different for the ADHD brain.

[00:05:51] What I didn't realize is that it would actually look like starting my ADHD coaching business. I thought I'd be in research and [00:06:00] academia and be a professor, but there just were some, environmental conditions in academia that just didn't work with how my brain works. So I was like. I think I've gotta leave.

[00:06:11] And that's how I started my ADHD coaching business. I wanted to be able to apply what we know about the brain and help people more immediately. 'cause academia is a bit of a slow process. I love research, but it takes a really long time for that information to get to the people who need it the most.

[00:06:27] And so this was a way that I could bring that information to people more quickly and have a more immediate impact. 

[00:06:34] Jami Shapiro: Okay, before we get into your topic, which I am so excited to share with our audience, because you grew up with an ADHD mom and you did share with me that she was diagnosed at a younger age.

[00:06:44] I always like to ask people how it was to be parented by someone with ADHD because I was parented by someone with ADHD, but we didn't realize it. And you know, now of course, all of the pieces make sense. So I would love to hear, you know, your perspective, how [00:07:00] that might have been different than your friend's mom's.

[00:07:02] Eliza Barach: Yeah, so I think, you know, my mom was always open about being diagnosed with ADHD when she was little. And then, so something I always knew about, and I think what was interesting is like my mom and I are very similar, but also have a lot of differences. and we also know no two people with ADHD are the same.

[00:07:20] And so seeing her and seeing me, like we didn't think that I could possibly have it because my mom also struggled in school. And that's not something I had, I loved school. My mom's very smart, but like. As we talked about, you know, when I was telling my story about environment, if the environment's not a good fit, it's really hard for us to succeed.

[00:07:40] Mm-hmm. So that part was kind of interesting because eventually I was diagnosed. And then I think one of the things that was actually really great with my mom having ADHD, is that she didn't follow like a typical career trajectory. So she worked so many different jobs and we never thought anything of it.

[00:07:59] Like there [00:08:00] wasn't some kind of shame or. Moral failing kind of story to it. It was just, this is what you do. You adapt. When something doesn't work anymore, you find something that's better. And my mom also ran her own business. So the entrepreneurial spirit runs deep for me. Not only having ADHD, but my mom as well ran her own photography business.

[00:08:19] And also just did a million things when she was younger to like making cakes and, she made jewelry. She just did so many different things, and so I think growing up seeing that was really helpful and really helped kind of validate that I may not be someone that has a traditional career path.

[00:08:39] So I found that to be really, really helpful. What I think sometimes is challenging is that. You have two people that have ADHD and two people who have very intense emotions. And my mom's definitely more sensitive than I am, or at least overtly. And so we definitely could butt heads like that. 'Cause I tended to have a bit of a temper as a kid.

[00:08:59] So [00:09:00] that was an interesting thing to see of like how the different, how emotional dysregulation can show up in different ways than the parent and the child. So that definitely was, interesting to look back on now. So there's lots of things that were really great 'cause I think she could get me in ways that, other people couldn't.

[00:09:17] But we also sometimes had the same blind spots. 

[00:09:21] Jami Shapiro: I love that I have to, just as you're saying all of these things, I was thinking back to my own childhood and my mother and my emotional dysregulation is also, it's been a real, is a source of butting heads for us and we're very, very different. Which is why I didn't realize my mom had ADHD.

[00:09:38] Because I'm more of the go-getter. Let's see what I can achieve. My mom, you know, gr dropped out of college although she's incredibly bright, couldn't hold down a job 'cause she would just keep switching. And was incredibly, you know, had a lot of anxiety and depression and then was sensitive to me and I had quite a temper, which I now realize probably was my emotional [00:10:00] dysregulation.

[00:10:00] And then it's interesting that you say you were diagnosed at 17. My youngest child, actually. I, so I was. Diagnosed when my oldest child was diagnosed in middle school, but did not realize that my youngest had it until she was 16 because it did look so different and I'm so glad that she brought that.

[00:10:17] I really like to, I always convey that ADHD looks different on every person, just like we all are different. So thank you. Before we get into your topic, because I love your topic, I, I think that's gonna be so applicable because that's one of the biggest misconceptions that I find is that people and I, and even at the ADHD conference, you know, we talked about it.

[00:10:38] People think, oh, if you're high achieving or you're really smart, or you did really well in college, you can't possibly have ADHD. And so I'm, so I know as she's, if you're not watching the video, Eliza just like, no, she's just. You know, nodding no. So I, I'm gonna start asking you questions and then I'm gonna ask you my button question and then we'll come back into that.

[00:10:57] Why do so many bright, capable [00:11:00] people get missed for ADHD until adulthood? 

[00:11:03] Eliza Barach: I think if you are successful by society standards, right? You're not a problem. And if you're not a problem, then you don't get a referral for diagnosis. So if you are making it seem like you've got it figured out, like you get good grades in school, you know, you don't show up to things late, then you know, you seem like you're fine and so you get passed by, you're not a problem.

[00:11:26] But the reality is we're not asking that question of like. What's the cost of you having this success? How much harder do you have to work compared to people who have maybe the same talent, the same IQ as you? What do you have to do in order to be successful that others don't? 

[00:11:45] Jami Shapiro: Yeah, that's the duck paddling.

[00:11:47] You know, you see the duck on the water and everything looks really, really smooth and underneath it, especially that ADHD duck, they're paddling at such an effort. So, ask you this question. So someone that does have it all together, and again, I [00:12:00] discovered that I had ADHD at 45 and at that point I'm like, I've got a career.

[00:12:04] I graduated college with high honors and honestly I didn't really think much about it and I sort of put a pin in it. Until I realized that my mom had it and my whole world intersected. Why do you think it would benefit someone who has been successful their whole life to finally understand ADHD and its impact?

[00:12:23] Eliza Barach: I think that regardless of anyone's label, understanding how your brain works or how you work is such an important thing to know. So whether you have ADHD or not, getting a really clear understanding of this is the way my brain works, this is what matters to me, and this is what helps me to be successful.

[00:12:46] It's gonna set you up for success in your life. Not just, you know, checking off boxes of success, but also just I think being engaged and feeling satisfied. So no, like regardless of the label you're getting, having that [00:13:00] clarity I think is really helpful in you moving forward and figuring out like the best way for you to move forward that integrates, you know, wellbeing and you know your values and things that actually matter to you.

[00:13:12] Jami Shapiro: Mm-hmm. I think there's also a misconception that once you know you have ADHD or you're an ADHD coach, then you don't have any of the struggles with ADHD Eliza. Yeah. What do you think of that statement?

[00:13:22] Eliza Barach: Yeah. I mean, this is why I'm really open and transparent with my clients and strategically use self-disclosure because.

[00:13:29] Just because I do this for a living doesn't mean that I'm cured or I have it figured out. There are times when I'm working with clients and it's like looking in a mirror and I'm like, I have the same struggle too. So I think, you know, just because we've gotten to this place where we're helping other people, doesn't.

[00:13:46] ultimately eradicate our own challenges. I think it gives us an extra window into it that other people may not get and may streamline communication and understanding. But it doesn't mean that [00:14:00] we've got an elixir that no one else has. 

[00:14:03] Jami Shapiro: Yeah, I love that. And I will say for me, it's given myself the forgiveness, or I'm not beating myself up anymore, you know, for the mistakes because I just.

[00:14:13] Have come to expect them. And now the only difference is I film them and I put them up on social media and say, This is another example. I left my wash in the washing machine last week, even though I've got things in place, but I had just gotten back from the ADHD conference. I took them wash right in with everything else going on.

[00:14:32] I completely forgot to get it out. Two days later it wreaks, right? And now it can't be washed on cold because now I'm gonna get the smell out and I sold it. I'm like, okay, well, here we go. 

[00:14:45] Eliza Barach: it's funny you mention that 'cause I actually just washed my headphones like two weeks ago. They're in my pocket.

[00:14:51] I forgot to take them out. And the reason they were in my pocket was the strategy to remember to bring them like so I could listen when I was working out. [00:15:00] So, yeah, and I love that you brought up the point about acceptance. And I think that knowledge gives you that, that understanding of like, okay, these challenges that I have, it's not because I made some bad choice, it's that my brain needs different things in order to be successful.

[00:15:18] And when I don't have those things, of course I'm gonna make these mistakes. I always like to say this too, that even when we have all the things figured out, you know, case in point your example with the washer and mine with the washer too, like you're still gonna make mistakes because even if you level the playing field, you're still not perfect.

[00:15:35] And neurotypicals are gonna make those mistakes too. It's just that we tend to make them a bit more frequently, especially when we don't have our systems and our strategies in place. 

[00:15:45] Jami Shapiro: So I wanna go off topic with you. Sure. Is your I, I dunno if you're married or your partner. So I don't wanna say husband or, or partner.

[00:15:52] He's my husband. Husband, okay. Has ADHD or not because I, to your point, I am with a [00:16:00] neurotypical and well, I wouldn't say is totally neurotypical, but he doesn't have ADHD. And I know my little things, you know, he's got to have such patience, but he's such a good balance for me because. He's sort of that executive functioning outside of me to say, Jamie, did you do this?

[00:16:14] And you know, don't do this. And what about you? What about your husband? 

[00:16:18] Eliza Barach: So my husband actually just got diagnosed in this last year with ADHD, and I just, I was like. Like, you know, first of all, I was like, I do this. I can't diagnose, I'm notlicensed as a mental health professional, but I'm surrounded by ADHD.

[00:16:35] And I was like, I can't believe that, you know, we've been together for like 11 years now. I'm like, I can't believe I missed it. But interestingly enough. as we talked about earlier. no two people with ADHD are the same. And so our ADHD actually compliments each other. It also butts heads with each other, but it also can be quite complimentary.

[00:16:53] And you know, I've spent a long time working with my ADHD, and so I've built systems that have helped [00:17:00] both of us. And now that he's starting to better understand how his brain works, he's figuring out his own systems as well.

[00:17:06] And you know, normally it's the moms that get diagnosed with ADHD when they have kids.

[00:17:10] For us, it was my husband. 

[00:17:13] Jami Shapiro: Oh, that's funny. Yeah. Because you're now responsible for a whole other person in addition to the responsibilities that you have. I had three children when I was diagnosed and as a mom I can remember, you know, going to my ex-husband, I call him my was Bend and saying, I can't seem to get it together.

[00:17:31] and I couldn't, I didn't know I had ADHD, but I just knew that I just couldn't do the gold stars and all of the, the consistent things that my friends were doing. And I would miss parent teacher conferences and. You know, I just, I remember asking him because, and it seems like even though there were signs before that when I had kids, it just really was like a cardhouse that crumbled.

[00:17:52] Eliza Barach: Yeah. And that's kind of what happened for both of us too. Because we, I mean, we didn't know that Mike had had [00:18:00] ADHD. I couldn't figure out like, you know, why he couldn't be on time. Like, I'm like, I need you here so I can transition into work. And I'm like, this is the priority. And then the more I thought about it, I'm like, I think he has ADHD and, and like then I was like, I need to like, kind of readjust my expectations and figure out how we can best support him in this as well.

[00:18:25] Yeah, 'cause like I kind of had my systems figured out to some extent and while, you know, having a kid totally like blows some of that up a bit. It was, you know, now it was like we were trying to coordinate three people and I just, like, I couldn't do it on my own. So yeah, I was kind of glaring. It's just as funny 'cause normally it's the mom that is like, something's not working right.

[00:18:51] And this time it was, you know, dad. 

[00:18:53] Jami Shapiro: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So the other question that I was gonna ask you, I kind of feel like we covered, which is once someone [00:19:00] understands how their ADHD brain functions, what shifts can they make? And, you know, to the biggest difference in their daily life and self-worth. So actually we talked a little bit about that, but I would like to hear some more, but I also wanna take a pause and before you answer that question, I'm gonna ask you one more.

[00:19:16] this is like my hook. I think it's called Jump the Shark or something. I don't know if you were at the International conference last year when Penn Holderness gave his presentation on ADHD and he said that if someone had asked if he could push a button and not have ADHD, would he push the button?

[00:19:32] So I always like to ask my guests that question, and so we're gonna take a pause. Then you're gonna come back, answer that and answer the other one. And so just bear with us. By the way, to all of you listeners, I hope that you are enjoying this podcast. I have done something really exciting and that is that I am going to be building a grandma has ADHD community where we support each other and it's not gonna be the Facebook community that I tried, [00:20:00] that didn't work.

[00:20:00] I've got a really. Great plan, and if you are interested in learning more about it, then what I need you to do is to email me at Grandmahasadhd@gmail.com and say, Jami, I wanna know. And also if you're liking this podcast, please subscribe to it, like it, write a review. And all right, so we're gonna pause.

[00:20:23] We're gonna come back with Eliza or Dr. Eliza Barach. Did I get it right this time? Yep, you got 

[00:20:30] Eliza Barach: it. Awesome.

[00:20:31] 

[00:20:35] You know that feeling when Monday rolls around and you have all the plans, but by Tuesday you're already behind. Yeah, me too. That's the ADHD brain doing its thing. I'm Jamie Shapiro and I'm launching something I Wish had existed when I first discovered my ADHD. Grandma has A-D-H-D a membership community.

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[00:21:57] This isn't just another membership created [00:22:00] to take your money. This is the support system we've been looking for. Head to Jami shapiro.me to add your name to the interest list. Let's stop going it alone. That's Jami Shapiro. J-A-M-I-S-H-A-P-I-R-O.me

[00:22:21] .

[00:22:21] 

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[00:23:30] 

[00:23:34] Jami Shapiro: So you can probably hear the dog barking. I'll tell you that there is not gonna be any way that we're gonna be able to edit that out. the person that edits my podcast doesn't have that level.

[00:23:46] And one of the things that I learned at the ADHD conference is we need to simplify. We need to make things as easy as possible. And when you live with ADHD and you're very open about your ADHD, it's not an excuse. [00:24:00] It's an explanation. And so it's to say to you, Hey, I wanna deliver this content because I think it's important, and if I'm gonna make it perfect and get that dog bark, then it's not going to get out there to you.

[00:24:10] So I'm just gonna put that in there. But now of course, the dogs are quiet. So we left you on the cliff hanging question, Eliza, if you could never have ADHD. Never have it. Never had it, never. You know, it's gone. Would you push the button? 

[00:24:27] Eliza Barach: No, because it wouldn't, I wouldn't be me without it. Like, for better or worse, there are things about ADHD that are incredible.

[00:24:37] You know, your ability to see, come up with ideas or see things that other people miss. And I talk about this a lot in terms of how attention works. So. You need to have distractibility in order to be Innovative. Granted, sometimes we can go a bit too far and, you know, lose the thread.

[00:24:54] But innovation starts with the ability to see things that others miss, and that does require you to have some degree [00:25:00] of distractibility. So I wouldn't trade it, you know, for the world. The challenges I have had have made me very resilient and have, you know, gotten me to where I am today. And you know, I love working with people with ADHD, and if I didn't have ADHD, it may be the case that I wouldn't be working with them.

[00:25:18] Jami Shapiro: Right. I love the answer. I've only had one person say no, that she would push the button and then actually she starts talking more and she goes, nah, I don't think I'd push it. But I think I've come up with a theory of my own on what the resilience is, and I don't have a PhD in it, but my lived experience and I realize I make so many mistakes.

[00:25:36] All the time, or sometimes I will make a decision so quickly because I hate all of the decisions and I just need to make one so that it's done. And so I don't wanna beat myself up over it. So I just adapt, okay, this is the decision I've made, or this is the thing that's happened. And I think that that's sort of for me, where a lot of the resilience comes.

[00:25:55] What do you think of that theory? 

[00:25:57] Eliza Barach: I think so too. I mean, Even the way you were [00:26:00] explaining it is a strength in and of itself that willingness to take risks, make decisions that maybe other people wouldn't make. And that's what we see in the entrepreneurship literature. ADHD and entrepreneurship.

[00:26:10] A lot of the times, like we are so passionate about ideas that we don't even consider why it wouldn't work. And so we take that risk and I mean, I can say too, like. I probably wouldn't have a PhD if I didn't have ADHD because the whole reason I did my PhD was because my brother was like, Hey, you're really good at psychology.

[00:26:32] And I love psychology, and he was like, you should do a PhD. So I was like, okay, I think I'll do a PhD. If I hadn't actually known what doing a PhD entailed, there's no way I would've done it. But that ADHD impulsivity the interest in the subject and someone being like, Hey, you're good at that. So positive validation too.

[00:26:50] I was like, this seems like a good idea. I think I'll do this. 

[00:26:54] Jami Shapiro: Okay, awesome. So I want you to answer the question then I want you to give us a [00:27:00] little mini tad talk of your TAD talk. So the question that I asked was, once someone understands how their ADHD brain functions, what shifts can make the biggest difference in their daily life and self forth?

[00:27:13] Eliza Barach: We talked about this a little bit already, but. I think knowledge is power. If you understand that you have ADHD, you learn what ADHD actually is, and then you learn what it looks like for you. You are in a position to create your own manual for your life. So instead of trying to, you know, do life on hard mode, and this was something that really resonated with my husband.

[00:27:36] He's like, I've been doing my life on hard road like this whole time. So instead of doing that, you can maybe get it to like medium mode and maybe we get it to easier mode. So understanding how it works for you means that we can do more targeted strategies to help you succeed. So like for example, with ADHD, we know that we have smaller working memory capacity.

[00:27:57] That basically is just your like, [00:28:00] I like to think that as your sketch pad. Also your inner inner monologue. So basically it's the container that holds information in your head so that you could do something for ADHD. We have, you know, if we use the painting metaphor, our canvas is a bit smaller, so we can't put as much paint on it.

[00:28:17] So knowing that about ourselves, how are we gonna download information? How am I gonna externalize things that I wanna remember or things I wanna do? So for some people with a DHG, maybe they use digital. Like I know more of the Gen Z population is, is inclined to use digital, but you know. I have millennials, gen X, and boomers too, who do better with paper.

[00:28:39] And so really encouraging them to use paper and not feel shame over using digital is something that we can do. And again, the idea is can we externalize all of the stuff up here so that you actually have space to think about those things and maybe even execute on some of them. So my long story short now, which is famous, ADHD Words, right?

[00:28:59] Is. [00:29:00] Knowing how your brain works and knowing how your ADHD works means that we can do more targeted strategies that you're more likely to use than if we were kind of, you know, just assuming you're like everybody else, then we're shooting in the dark. And the other thing is then you can also build this repertoire or this toolbox of things that you can rotate out.

[00:29:20] 'cause what I always say to my clients, and this is also knowing your ADHD, is your strategies, have an expiration date on them. They just do something will work for a while and then all of a sudden it won't. Part of it could be because of our need for novelty. Mm-hmm. We like new things that we just can't help it.

[00:29:38] That has to do with our, you know, available dopamine or lack thereof sometimes. And so just knowing that about yourself means that you can build this toolbox of things that you could rotate out and just, you know, like Jamie was saying, like accepting that. This is part of how it works for you. One of these things is gonna expire, but you can, you know, reach into your toolbox and find that next thing that might work for [00:30:00] you.

[00:30:00] Jami Shapiro: I love that. that's great. One of my areas of specialty and what kind of brought me into this is that I actually am a senior move manager. And have you even heard of that, Eliza? 

[00:30:13] Eliza Barach: No, but I was reading about, you know, your background before we met and I was like, that's so interesting. I wanna learn more.

[00:30:19] Yeah. 

[00:30:20] Jami Shapiro: so if you're listening to this podcast, obviously you're listening 'cause you're gonna hear I'm part of the National Association of. Senior and specialty move managers. So if you are moving, and by the way, moving is one of the biggest, most complicated tasks for anybody, but especially for people with ADHD who struggle with executive functioning, prioritizing, breaking down big tasks there's help out there.

[00:30:42] So I just wanna make sure that I'm mentioning that. But where I'm coming into this is, I recently wrote a book on downsizing and decluttering. And there were a lot of books that were out there, but there wasn't one that addressed. Now that you have an understanding of ADHD and I talk about the decluttering process and bringing [00:31:00] different things because maybe today you feel like doing it this way, but this isn't gonna work for you the next day.

[00:31:04] So exactly what you just said. So that was a good opportunity for me to share. And now hopefully all of our listeners can go look up it's nasm.org and learn more about, and so we do home organize and we all run differently. We're independently owned and operated, but we all. Are part of a national organization and we subscribe to a code of ethics and we have educational requirements.

[00:31:27] So anyway, that's just a plug for what we do, and I think that's really important that people with ADHD even know that that service exists. Okay, so how can we find you and also give us a little bit of your, talk too, just 'cause I wanna make sure that 

[00:31:42] Eliza Barach: Okay. So. This, it's such a perfect segue too, because you were talking about, you know, moving and how 

[00:31:50] Like so hard. And so what I talked about was realistic planning with ADHD, and so. One of the things that's a strength of ours, and I promise this will make sense, [00:32:00] is we can be very creative and we tend to have big badass goals. Like we tend to be like the go big or go home people, which can be really great and sometimes can backfire.

[00:32:13] And so that part of us that wants the big, you know, the big goal, I call that the optimist. So it's the one that's like, okay, here's a really, really good idea. We should definitely do this. And so when this comes to planning, it's like. Okay, I wanna start exercising. That's always like an easy one. Or if we use you know, Jamie's moving, I'm gonna pack all the boxes up in my house, right?

[00:32:37] Biggest, baddest goal we could select. That's the optimist. And the optimist is like, we totally can do this. And the truth is, is there's a part of you that definitely can, because you've probably done something like this before where you pulled, you know, like this hail Mary out, which can be a strength, but can also be really stressful.

[00:32:55] So this optimist voice sometimes gets a lot of stage time for us, and it may not [00:33:00] be a bad thing, but there's also this other part of us that I often say kind of hiccups when the optimist is like, this is a really good idea, and I call this voice the realist. It's kind of that voice in the back of your head that's like, yeah, I'm probably not gonna do that.

[00:33:15] Right? I don't think I'm gonna pack all like 30 boxes today. Without having like someone like, you know, giving me a deadline where it's like, if you don't do it now, it's, you know, do or die. So in the absence of Do or Die, that realist voice is gonna kind of kick up a little bit. It's a hiccup in your body and it's like.

[00:33:32] I don't think you're gonna do this. So one of the things that I will do with clients is get them to kind of see these two voices in their heads and kind of feel for them. And the goal is that we don't wanna like turn off the optimist. We just wanna, you know, scoop the optimist a little bit off stage and let the realist come on there and just have a little bit of a say of like, okay, I may not do these boxes all today, all 30 of them.

[00:33:58] But what's the what, what [00:34:00] am I actually willing to do? And talking to the realist about that, what am I going to actually do? What am I willing to do? And the point of getting these two voices to talk together is so that our pessimist voice doesn't get to take the stage when we only listen to the optimist and we don't follow through on putting those 30 boxes away.

[00:34:19] we don't want the pessimist to come in and tell us those narratives of, I never do anything. I say I'm lazy. Whatever mean thing, it's got to say. However, that voice eventually will come up, and when it does, I think it's just helpful to be like, okay, like what you're saying is not true, but I understand that a part of me is upset here.

[00:34:40] Basically this framework is to kind of balance those three voices, and ultimately my hope is that when we get the optimist and the realist talking, it really prevents the pessimist from having much of a say. 'cause I'm definitely more about circumvention with ADHD, especially when it's emotional dysregulation.

[00:34:56] If we can prevent a spiral, that's something we should invest in [00:35:00] rather than focusing solely on picking up the pieces of that spiral. 

[00:35:04] Jami Shapiro: I love that. I love that. Okay, so who do you work with and how can we find you? 

[00:35:11] Eliza Barach: work with predominantly high performing professionals, entrepreneurs and creatives with ADHD.

[00:35:17] I also have another coach on my team Dr. Shale Brown. she's a developmental psychologist and a certified ADHD coach, and she works with entrepreneurs, high professionals, creatives, late diagnosed, and also ADHDers too. And so you guys can find us on ww neural revolution.com and I also write a monthly newsletter called KS Managed, where we talk about an ADHD topic each month and offer some practical tips for both ADHDers and practitioners.

[00:35:47] Jami Shapiro: I love that. Well, are, is there anything, this is, I don't know about you, but I will sometimes have a conversation and then at the end of the day I'll be laying in bed thinking, oh, I wish I had said that, or, why did I say that? So I [00:36:00] wanna make sure that we've wrap this conversation up in a nice little package that you hang up feeling really good.

[00:36:05] And that I didn't, I didn't cut you off, or, you know. 

[00:36:10] Eliza Barach: Anything? I don't think so, but you know, I may have to like shoot you an email tonight at like one when I'm up thinking about what are the things I didn't say, especially when Jamie gave me the opportunity to say them. Jokes aside, no, I think we covered a lot and I think maybe the only thing that keeps kind of sticking in my head is.

[00:36:30] What you were saying earlier about acceptance and how important that is, I think for everybody with ADHD, but especially high performers who have often, questioned like, do I even have ADHD? Like, I'm successful here yet, so, how could I have this I think that understanding of like ADHD happens in all walks of life.

[00:36:52] It doesn't discriminate against iq. And that you can absolutely be, high IQ or successful and still have [00:37:00] ADHD. And all that means is that you need different things in order to be successful and you don't need to work. so much harder than everyone else. it's not fair that, you're putting that pressure on yourself.

[00:37:12] And so I think absolving yourself of that and really leaning into what it means to have ADHD is a really powerful tool in and of itself. 

[00:37:21] Jami Shapiro: So I'm gonna throw a monkey wrench at you because I just thought of something else that I wanna ask you, which is a wonderful thing about podcast. Do you think that imposter syndrome is, a big catalyst for whywe tend to achieve more or get more certifications?

[00:37:37] That one. And then the other one is I learned about a term called Hurry, sickness. And I know I read about it right before conference. For me, if I'm not being productive with every moment, or I'm not doing something to be learning then I'm wasting time. And then that also drives me.

[00:37:53] So I'd like you to just answer those two and then we'll. Say goodbye. 

[00:37:56] Eliza Barach: Yeah, sure. So first one, imposter syndrome [00:38:00] and, okay. So I think that's you know, I'll speak from, being in academia like that's rampant in academia, like you're never good enough and that's a big driver for putting out publications and whatnot.

[00:38:14] In terms of ADHD, I think some of it is like if anyone saw the mess behind the success, there's no way they would still think I was successful. Right? And so I think that makes us double down into working that much harder because we can't have anyone figure out the craziness, the mess behind all of this.

[00:38:34] So I think some of it's that, and then also like. If you had success when you were young and you have ADHD, first of all, it feels really good to succeed and you wanna keep getting more of that. I think that when that's been your upbringing and there's been so much worth assigned to your success.

[00:38:51] And then you're starting to see like this is really chaotic. Like is it really this chaotic for everybody else? Again, that kind of makes you wanna, hide the [00:39:00] chaos and you don't wanna lose out on that positive validation. Right? So. I think that Ned Howwell talks about the flip side of RSD being like, recognition, success, euphoria.

[00:39:11] I think that's the phrase or whatever. And so we're very motivated by positive outcomes. And so there's this question of when is this actually adaptive and when is this actually maladaptive? And that's when you're working yourself to the bone in service of this positive outcome.

[00:39:29] Jami Shapiro: I have never heard the recognition success euphoria, but I love that. Write that one down. Okay, now this is really time to say goodbye. I always ask my guest if you know, especially a lot of my listeners are late diagnosed and the, the grief and the relief that comes from that diagnosis. What is your advice or what would you say to those people who are in that space?

[00:39:53] 

[00:39:53] Eliza Barach: think, 

[00:39:53] I'm so sorry. I'm gonna 

[00:39:54] Jami Shapiro: need you to ask that question one more time.I said for those that are late diagnosed or, [00:40:00] or realizing that they have ADHD 'cause not everybody gets that formal diagnosis. What would you say to those people who are meeting that with the relief and the grief?

[00:40:12] Eliza Barach: So for those that are meeting it with relief and grief, first of all, validating that a hundred percent, there is such a relief in knowing. But there's also that true grieving process because there's a lot that you maybe missed out on because you didn't know this information at that time.

[00:40:29] And so giving yourself space to, grieve is normal and important. And then also, you know, leaning into the relief of like, now that I know this, what is possible for me? What can change, what can I do differently? You know, what can I experience more of and what am I already doing pretty good and can pull from that as well.

[00:40:51] Jami Shapiro: I think that was a great answer, and as I like to share when I, my closing thought is that, you know, it's never too late to understand and know yourself better [00:41:00] because we are always growing and so thank you so much. Dr. Eliza Barach. Bh Yep. Bar for joining me today.

[00:41:10] And again, remind us, your newsletter is chaos. 

[00:41:14] Eliza Barach: Managed 

[00:41:16] Jami Shapiro: chaos managed com 

[00:41:18] Eliza Barach: no, that's okay. My website is www.neural-revolution.com. Neuro and then newsletters. Yeah. Neural revolution 

[00:41:29] Jami Shapiro: neuro. 

[00:41:31] Eliza Barach: Revolution. Yeah. Neaural al at the end. I know it's tough. Over where? the podcast and with my dog, Jackson making his cameo.

[00:41:40] 

[00:41:40] Jami Shapiro: he made more than a cameo. I think he was like a, a co-star in this one, but we're gonna go with it so much. He wants 

[00:41:47] Eliza Barach: the fame. 

[00:41:49] Jami Shapiro: Yeah. I, well, so Benji, I dunno if you heard it, but at one point, hears. Jackson and starts chiming in. I'm like, oh, of course. Anyway, thank you guys so much for listening.

[00:41:59] Thank you Dr. [00:42:00] Eliza Barach. This is another episode of Grandma has ADHD.

[00:42:06] The opinions expressed on Grandma has ADHD podcast are those of our guests and hosts and are intended for informational and entertainment purposes only. This podcast does not provide medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. The content discussed in this episode is not a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

[00:42:28] Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health, professional, or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition or mental health concern. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast.

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